
Book 2^ 5* 



'HOTECTION OF TlIK SPOiNGR INDISTRY. 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



C03[3HTTEE ON MERCHANT MARINE 
AND FISHEIUES 



HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 



PROTECTION OF THE SPOxXGE INDUSTRY ON 

THE COAST OF FLORIDA, GULF 

OF MEXICO. 



APRIL 19 TO 35, 1906. 



WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE. 
19 6. 



.^^ 



5^>^ 



JUN 9 1906 
D. otO. 



Committee ox the 
Merchant Marine and P^isherh^s. 

HoirsE (JF Representatives, 
Wa.9hmgton, D. ('.. April 19, 1906. 
The eoiuinittee met at 11 o'eloclc a. iii.. Hon. Charles II. (irosvenor 
in the chair. 

The Chairman. There are two bills here relatiiia' to a niatt«r of 
some importance, and the iifeutlenian from Florida. Mr. S])arknian, 
is here to address the committee upon Senate hills 4S0.-) and 4S()(). 

STATEMENT OF HON. STEPHEN M. SPARKMAN, REPRESENTATIVE 
FROM FLORIDA. 

Mr. Spakkma.n. Mr. Chairman, the first of these hills (S. 4805) 
prohihits aliens from takinji' or gathering sponges in the waters of 
the United States, and tlie other (S. 4806) prohibits the use of diving 
apparatus in gathering the sponges. 

ilr. Littlekieli). Is this a proper exercise of Federal jurisdiction, 
within the 3-mile limit ? Why is not that within nnuiicipal juris- 
diction? 

ilr. Sparkaian. I am inclined to think Congress has jurisdiction 
in the matter of prohibiting aliens fishing in the waters of the United 
States. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. I subiiiit to you this proposition: What juris- 
diction does the United States have over tide waters or over the high 
seas, excejjt to regulate obstructions and control their disposition? 

Mr. Sparkman. T think it has at least concurrent jurisdiction with 
the State authorities in all tidal waters, all navigable waters, of 
the Ignited States. 

Mr. LiTTLEEiELD. What kind of jurisdiction does it have? Does 
it have both municipal and Federal jurisdiction, or does it have Fed- 
eral jurisdiction that is maritime in its character? Of course we do 
have jurisdiction over the harbors. 

The Chairman. Do we not regulate the cod fishing and inack- 
t'rel fishing? AVe even go into the bays along your Maine coast and 
regulate the time of the year when you may catch mackerel. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiEi.i). But the regulation of codfishing is outside of the 
:Vmile limit. 

The Chairman. But mackerel fishing is not. Even a statesman 
of the size of Mr. Reed made a long and hard fight and secured 
legislation on that very subject. 

3 



4 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. Sparkjiax. I take it the United States would have no greater 
authority to prohibit sponge tishing than the State of Fk)rida would 
have. I am under the impression that it has jurisdiction to do just 
what is suggested here. 

The Chairman. I think you had better consider that question 
before the bills come up in the House. 

Mr. Li-rrLEFiELD. I sujDpose it is a valuable industry. 

Mr. Sparkman. It is very valuable in Florida, and it is threatened 
with destruction unless some such legislation is passed. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiEi.D. You do uot want to get legislation here that may 
turn out afterwards to be inetfective^ I think you had better look 
into the matter and see whether this is the legislation you want. 
There may be nothing in my suggestion. 

Mr. Sparkman. I would be willing to have the legislation take 
any direction this connnittee may see pro])er to give it. .So far as I 
am personally concerned I would waste little time on the constitu- 
tional feature unless the act projjosed to be drawn were clearly 
unconstitutional, or there should be some doubts as to its constitu- 
tionality. If the legislation ought to be enacted. I would do it and 
leave its constitutional features to the courts. In this case I think 
the legislation very necessary, and that both of these bills should be 
Ijassed. I think probably the subject-matter of both could have been 
embraced within one bill ; but we have two bills here, and both 
should, in my opinion, become laws. 

The reason for the legislation is that the sponge industry in the 
United States is threatened with destruction. It is carried on only 
in the Florida waters, because sponges are found in the United States 
only in those waters. They are found in the waters of the Mediter- 
j'anean. off the coast of Africa, and possibly in the Bahamas ; but they 
are found now only in limited quantities in those waters. They 
have been found in very large quantities along the (xulf coast of 
Florida, and many of our people have been engaged in that industry 
for a great many years. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiEi.D. In the line of the legal proposition, let nu- make 
(his suggestion: In my State we have State legislation regulating 
the digging of clams, which our courts have universally sustained. 
It may be. of course, that the States can regulate it so long as the 
National (xovernment does not see fit to do so. Our courts have held 
that there is no State legislation which can authorize the building 
of a fish weir or the building of wharves unless they first get the 
permission of the United States Government, under the legislation 
vesting that power in the Secretary of War. Our courts recognize 
his power as exclusive to regulate wharves and harbors. Init when it 
comes to the question of shellfish, which are treated as fish floating in 
the sea, our legislation on the part of the State is universally sus- 
tained. We have a regulation which prohibits the resident of one 
town going into another town and digging clams within the limits 
of that town, which has been sustained. 

Mr. Wilson. Does the law in your State prohibit a resident in one 
part of the State from going into another section to dig clams? 

Mr. LiTTLEFiEi.n. Yes; the selectmen have charge of that. 

Mr. Hr JiPHREY. The fish laws in our State are all regulated bv the 
State. 



PROIKCTION OK THE SPONOK INDISIUV. 5 

Mr. Wii.soN. As 1 i:ii(l('r-i;iii.l Mr. I-illlclicld. in hi- ."^latc n man 
from ;iii ad joining' ti)\vn can not ^o into aiiotluT town ami (isli ? 

Mr. Lrni.r.riKi.!). ^'cs; that is the law. 1 do not know tliat there 
is anythinji' in this suiiircstiDn. hut it sti-ui-lv me that it was pretty 
close to the line. 

Mr. Sr.MiK.MAN. I nndei-stand that Mr. [..iiliclicld's criticism does 
not apply so much to Senate hill -hS(M> as it does to Senate hill 4805. 

Mr. I.inTLEFiKi,n. Possibly, under the power to regulate commerce, 
we niifrht have authority to pass hSOC). Let me make another inquiry. 
Of course yon will not feel that I am undertakinii' to distract yon 
from your line of ar<>:ument, but I want to get information, so thai 
we can act intelligently upon it. AVhat is the fact down there with 
rehition to the title to these sponges? Do yon have the connnon-law 
rule there that the title of the ri]iarian owner innis to low-water mai'k i 

Mr. Si'ARKMAN. The title of the riparian owner goes to the channel. 
The State has divested itself of all right, title, and interest from the 
shore to the edge of the channel, which means to the navigable part 
of the channeL 

Mr. LiTTLEFiEM). These sponges grow in salt water? 

Mr. Si>.\RKMAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Lrni.KKiEi.n. If you had a deed down there for a |)iece of land 
bounded by the shore, it would slo]) at high-water mark: and if a nnin 
had a deed bounded by the Atlantic Ocean, lie would still stop, under 
your rule, at high-water mark. With ns, in New England, if a man 
had a deed bounded by the Atlantic Ocean, his deed would carry him 
to low-water mai-k. and the result of that would be he would have 
title to everything that grew on that shore, such as rockw(>ed, for in- 
stance. He would not have any title to clams, because they can be 
taken just like fish, and people may lawfully go on his land and take 
clams: but he would hold everything that is atlixed to the realty. 
For instance, no one could build a wharf on ir withoni getting his 
personal i)ermission. A^'ith yon, as T understand it. the right of the 
riparian projjrietor runs ()nly to high-water mark. 

^Ii-. .Si-AKKMAN. No: the riparian owner owns the absolute title, 
you may say, to high-water mark, but from high-water mark to the 
edge of the channel the State has divested itself of all its rights and 
vested them in the riparian proprietor. The supreme court of the 
State of Florida, however, has held that the State still owns all valu- 
able dejiosits on the bottom, from high-water nuirk to the edge of the 
channel. They held that in some of the phos])liate cases. Whether 
they would hold that the rijiarian ])roprietors own these sponges I do 
not know, l>ut I believe not. Still, that is an academic (piestion here, 
because there are no sponges in the submerged lands that belong to 
individuals. They are out beyond that and, being in the nature of 
fish, they are ])robably owned by the public. 

Mr. Lrrri.Ei-iKij). Then, as I understand you, sponges as a rule grow 
beyond low-water mark ? 

Mr. Si'AKKJiAX. Yes; they grow beyond low-water mark. 

Mr. LrrTLEi-iELD. They do not grow except under water? 

Mr. Si'AKiv.AtAX. They only grow under watei'. 

The Chair-man. They are found usually about 10 miles from the 
shore. 

Mr. LiTTr.EFiEij). Then they ilo not involve the (|ne.-tion of [)rivate 



6 PEOTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

ownership at all. and tli(> matter is not within the jurisdiction of 
Congress. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. I do not think this bill contemplates control in any 
Mater that is not within the jurisdiction of the United States. 

Mr. Sp.\rkm.\x. The first bill only deals with the waters of the 
United States. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiEi.D. Anything' u]) to liigh-water mark is within the 
jurisdiction of the United States. 

Mr. HrJMPHREY. I suggest that we let Mr. Sparkman make a 
statement of the facts, and then we can discuss these questions in 
committee amongst ourselves. 

;Mr. Sparkjian. I am imder the impression that while the State 
had jurisdiction, the Ignited States also had jurisdiction, and that 
we can enact such legislation as is contemplated here and the courts 
Avill uphold it. 

Xow, Mr. Chairman, the necessity for this legislation arises from 
the fact that the sponges in the Florida waters are threatened with 
extermination unless some legislation of this kind is enacted. Here- 
tofore the business has been carried on by jjeople living in Key West 
and other places in Florida. There are several thousand people en- 
gaged in the business and the people have now been engaged in it for 
probably fifty years. They have very crude methods of gathering 
these sponges, and the gathering of them had until recently about 
kept pace with the demand. Within the past few years, however, 
on account of the great number of people engaged in the business, 
the output has gone beyond that. 

Recently, too, and within the last fifteen months a lot of (Jreeks, 
whose sponge grounds in the Mediterranean and in the waters off 
the coast of Africa have been exhausted by reason of fishing with 
diving apparatus, which permit them to go down to very great 
depths into the sea, have exhausted the supply there, and those gov- 
ernments within whose Avaters the sponges are found have adoj^tcd 
restrictive measures by way of legislation, which have compelled 
them to go out of business or to seel^ other fields; and they have 
come into the United States — into Florida waters — with their diving 
outfits, and for the last year and a half have been gathering sponges 
there to such an extent that they have not only brought down the 
price of sponges 50 per cent, but have practically driven the Ameri- 
cans out of the business and threaten the supply with absolute ex- 
haustion. 

The way our Key Westers have of gathering sponges is to go out in 
a small boat on a clear day over the sponge grounds, and by looking 
through an arrangement like a bucket with a glass bottom, they can 
discover the sjjonges to a depth, it is said, of 50 feet. By using a 
long hook they can hook and gather them in that waj'. In fact, all 
of the sponges that have been gathered in the United States in the 
past forty or fifty years have been gathered in that way until these 
Greeks came upon the scent. Now, they can send a diver down 40, 
50, 60, 70, or 100 feet and he can stay down four or five hours. He 
walks along the bottom of the Gulf until he comes upon a bed of 
sponges. He then gathers such as he wants. In this way he can 
gather immense quantities in a day. Having gathered a sack full 
he gives the signal to have that taken up, and then he goes on repeat- 



PEOTEOTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTKV. 7 

ing tlio ojx'ratioa until his powers of onduriuice are exiiausted, when 
thev pull him ii|) and send down another man. 

In addition to that, those people tread, so it is said, upon the 
sponges in the bottom to such an extent that they are killing out the 
young sponges and destroying them, so that in a very few years it is 
feai'ed the supply will be exhausted, as has been the case in the waters 
of the Mediterranean and other watei-s in that section of the w^orld. 

Tl»e necessity for this legislation rests on those facts. 

All'. Humphrey, of Washington. AMien they fish in deep water 
does it destroy them so that they do not propagate in shallow water? 

Mr. Spakkm.xn. 'I'hey are constantly destroying the young sponges. 
Perhaps one time going over the sponge beds, or a dozen times, would 
not destroy them, but it is claimed that eventually the beds will be 
killed. 

Mr. Humphrey, of Washington. As I understand it, the Greeks 
go out where the water has never been fished before. Does the de- 
struction of them in deep w-ater prevent tlieir i)ropagation in the 
waters where these Americans have been fishing; and what efl'ect will 
the fishing in deep water have on the supply where these men have 
already fished? 

Mr. Si"ARKM.\N. Of course, while we do not like it, we can not 
complain of anybody going out into the waters of the world to fish 
in them ; but inasmuch as the tendency is to destroj' the beds and 
drive our people ouf of the business, it is thought best to pass this 
bill (S. 4806), which is intended to forbid the Greeks from bringing 
their catch into the waters of the United States. 

At first it was thought best to pass Senate bill 480.5, Imt it was 
found that tlie passage of that bill alone would not meet the situation. 
The (ireeks wouhl just go outside of the waters of the United States, 
outside of the .1-niile limit, and fish there, where they would finalh' 
deplete and destroy the beds, which would to some extent affect those 
on the inside, because, as I understand from a pamjjhlet I have here, 
whicli is a report made by the Fish Conmiission to the Senate ten 
years ago. the sponge is propagated naturally by germs floating 
around over the water and attaching themselves to any hard sub- 
stance with which they came in contact, somewhat like an oyster. 
It is claimed that diving will destroy these gefms, if permitted, even 
outside of the :'-mile limit, which would of course affect the propaga- 
tion within the whole territory where sponge is grown. 

Mr. ITT-:\ri'Tii!EY. That is the point I was trying to get at a moment 
ago. 

Mr. Spadkmax. That is one of the reasons they assign for desiring 
the passage of this bill. Further than that, the very succe.ssfnl 
methods which these Greeks have of fishing for these sponges is 
driving the Americans out of the business. 

Air. I.TTTi.EFiELD. Wc could eiiiplov the same methods, if it was a 
coiumercial proposition. 

Mr. SpARKJiAx. PLveiitually we could, perhaps; but, as I said a 
moment ago. the adoption of that method with no restrictions would 
finally desti-oy all these beds on the out~side, and I am rather in favor 
of reserving them for the Americans, if it can be done within the 
proper legislative limits. 

Mr. LiTTi.EKiELi). What is the value of tlie industrv annuallv? 



O PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. Sp.\kkji.\n. T have no information upon that jwint as yet, but 
T do not suppose that tlie vahie of the outfit is yet very great. 

Mr. LiTTLEiTELi). AMiat I mean to ask is whether you have any idea 
as to the annual vahie of the industry. 

Mr. Spap.kjian. I iia\e no information at tliis time, Init I can get 
that for you. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. It is not specially material. I did not know but 
what you might have it at hand. 

Mr. Sparksian. You might say that it is a million dollars in round 
figures. I should think it would soon reach that figure. Sponges 
have heretofore been very valuable, but they have now been reduced 
in price about 50 per cent, perhaps more, by reason of the operations 
of these Greeks. 

Mr. Wilson. Does this sponge fishery exist except on the Florida 
coast ? 

Mr. Sparkman. Nowhere except on the Florida waters and waters 
adjacent to Florida. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. There is a pretty stiff proposition in section 4. 
t)f course there is no question about the fact that they have the 
right to fish outside of the 3-mile limit. Section 4 provides : 

If any foreign vessel shall be found within the waters to which this act ap- 
plies, having on lioard fresh or cured sponges and apparatus or implements 
suitable for gathering or taking sponges, it shall be presumed that the vessel 
and apparatus was used in violation of this act until it is otherwise sufficiently 
pro\ed. 

That shifts the burden of proof in a criminal |)rosecution. 

Mr. Wilson. You ought to luive the law sufficiently strong. 

Mr. Si'ARKJ[AN. Yes; if we have it at all we want it to accomplish 
the purpose for which it is intended. 

Mr. Patter.son. I have here a report gixing the value of the indus- 
try for the year 1897, and estinuiting it at somewhere near $;)8,o,000. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. I do not quite catch the point of the statement of 
Commissioner Bowers, in his letter of April 7, 190G, where he says: 

The provision of section 4 which limits the sizes of sponges that may be 
gathered seems to come within the purview of the State, and. in fact, has been 
incorporated in the laws of Florida, although little effort lias been made to 
enforce it. 

I think he has gotten uiixed on the bill. ^Mial do yon suppose he 
]-efers to there ? 

Mr. Sparkjian. I siqipose he refers to the legislation of Florida, 
regulating the sizes of the sponges that may be taken out of the 
waters. He is mistaken about that, I believe. The Florida statute 
confines the sponges that may be takou to 4 inches and upwai-d. 

Mr. Si'KiiiT. That is the State hu\ . 

Mr. Sparkman. That is the State law: but the trouble is that the 
State law is not enforced. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Ts i( a fact that, as he states here, no effort is 
made to enforce it ? 

Mr. Sparkman. I think tliat is true. I know it is true of our 
game laws. Nobody has tried very seriously to enforce them, except 
in rare instances. 

Mr. HiNSHAW. Do vou think the United States could enforce this 
law? 



PROTKCTION OF THK SPONCiK INDISTHV. 9 

Ml-. SiwiiKMAN. I ihink llic I'liitcil States coiiM coiiii' iifarcr to 
t'iif(iirinf>: it than tlio Stato of Floi-ida. as the (iciiefal (i(>\crniiu'iit 
lias liottor facilities for detectiiijj: and arresting: oHVnders. 

The CiiAiiniAX. Are yon aware that there are soniethinji' like a 
thousand protests against the passage of this bilif 

Mr. Si'.Mfiv.MAN. A\'here do thev eoiue from if 

The CiiAiii.MAN. From Key AVest and half a dozen other places. 

ilr. AA'ii.sox. AA'hat class of people sii>n those protests^ 

Mr. Si'ARKJrAN. Ciive me the names of some of them. There was a 
committee here from Key West a few months ixgo, and they favored 
the passage of these very l)ills. 

The CnAiiiJiAN. ff you will give me a chance I will give yon some 
light on this subject, so that yon will understand it. Here is a pro- 
test addressed to the chainnan and memliers of the Committee on 
Foreign Relations. I suppose that is the committee of the Senate. 
It says : 

We. the iiiiiliTsijriifd Ainericnii citizens, residents of llic counties of Hills- 
boro aiul I'lisco. in the State of Fk>riihi. having read tlie protest nnule l)y the 
persons eiifiajied in taUiiig s)ioii.i:es otT tlie coast of Florida liy divin.!;. and being 
thorouslily familiar with the situation, do respectfully sul)niit to your com- 
mittee that the said prote.st is well founded and should be given due consider- 
ation. 

We do further state that the passage of Senate bill Xo. 480(i would practically 
destroy the s|H)Uging industry in so far as the State of Florida is concerned. 

And we further state that it is our opinion the jiassage of the bill prohibiting 
diving for sponges in waters less tlian 48 feet in depth, and |)rohil)iting the 
taking of sponges less tli.m ."> inches in diameter would thorouglily protect the 
sponge industry, and would be to the best interests of the t)ublic in general. 

That protest is signed by the First National Bank of Tampa, the 
Exchange National Bank of Tampa, the Citizens' Banking and Trust 
Company of Tampa, the Bank o'i Ybor City, Fla., the American 
National Bank, the Tatnpa Foundry and Macliine Company, and 
immy others. 

Mr. SPARivJiAX. Is the date of tiiat ])r()te>t given '. I tliiiik I know 
all about that. 

Mr. LiTTi.EFiEi.u. Tampti is your town, is it not i 

The Chairjiax. No: there is no date given. 

ilr. SparivMAX. That protest came up when the bills were first 
introduced. They were introduced at the instigation of the peopli; 
at Key West, and these protestants. thinking the bills would hurt 
them, sent in these protests: but afterwards withdrew them, as I un- 
derstand it. 

The CiiAiu.MAX. Here is another ])rote-t. signed by a great number 
of individuals, who >ay they live in Hilisboro and Pasco counties. 
Here is another, and still another, and still another. Then tiiere are 
three long |)rotests, saying tlutt they have read the other protests and 
agree with them. 

Mr. Sparkiiax. You do not hud any from Key West, do you i! 

The Chair.max. I do not know that I do. I can not tell about that, 
because there are so many of them. I have here what seems to be a 
protest signed by citizens of Tarpon Springs and vicinity, which says: 

We. the undersigned citizens of the I'nited States, residing at Tarpon Spring.s 
and vicinity, in tlie State of Florida, and engaged in the business of obtaining 
sponges by diving, desire to enter a protest before your <-oniinittee ag.iiiist the 
jiassage of Senate bill Xo. 48(Mi, and. in supiiort of our oiiposition. woulil respect- 
fully state the following facts: 



10 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTEY. 

First. Tiii'iKin Spriiijis is tlie larjifst siiniige nmrliet in the I'uited States, ami 
practically does about '.Id per rent of the sponge business of the United States. 

Second. "We. the undersigned, have invested in vessels and paraiihernalia for 
gathering sponges of approximately .'j!200.0(J0. 

Third. There are employed in tills business, who have their headnuarters iu 
Tarpon Si>rings. Tla.. aliout fino iiersous. The passage of Senate bill No. 4806 
would practically destroy the investment above mentioned and would throw out 
of employment almost all of the men engaged in the above-mentioned busi- 
ness and cause their removal from this region. 

Fourth. In the opinion of the undersigned there is no reas.in for the pas- 
sage of Senate bill Xo. 4S0(i. af< it would do no good either to the Covernment. 
the peojile engaged in sponging, or the consumers of sponges. 

Fifth. In the opinion of the undersigned the passage of Senate liill Xo. 4.S06 
would result either in the loss to the markets of the world of all the si>ouges 
in water deeper than 48 feet, for the reason that the old method of booking 
sjioiiges can not he su<'cessfully carried on in water deeper than 48 feet, or in 
driving the siionge liusiness out of the United States. As, if the bill should be 
passed :inil the courts should sustiiin the same as a proper police regtilation. 
the grounds upon which the diving is d(me being upon the high seas and beyond 
the jurisdiction of the United States, the result would he that the sponges wcnikl 
.still be taken from the.se w.iters by diving and the only result would be that 
the vessels therein engaged would land their cargoes either ujion the island of 
('u!;a, the Rahama Islands, or some other foreign country. The mere matter of 
disi'ince from the sponging banks to the foreign port would make very little 
difference in the business, it being a fact that the fishing smacks of both Cuba 
and the Bahamas catch most of their fish off the Florida coast and transport 
them to their home ports. 

Sixth. In order that your connnittee may fully understand the conditions pre- 
vailing, we beg to state that of our own actual knowledge taking si)onges by 
the old method of hooking is impracticable in waters over a depth of 8 
fathoms: that liy reason of the continual taking of sponges for many years past 
in watei-s less than 48 feet and where hooking is practicable, and by reason of 
the fact that many small sponges have been taken, the sponging on the banks 
within a depth of 48 feet and within a distance of l."i miles from the shore has 
liractically been exhausted. The consequence of this has lieen that the prices 
of sponges have been going higher and higher and the consumer has been re- 
qtiired to i)ay more than was reasonable for his .sponges. The diving in water 
from a <leiith of 48 feet and over has been carried on long enough off the coast 
of Hillsboro County to demonstrate the fact that there are vast qtiantities of 
marketable sponges in the waters of this and greater depths, and the only 
wa.v to gather these sjionges is b.v the use of diving apparatus. In couflrma- 
tion of the above statements we beg to call the committee's attention to the 
rejiort made b.v the Commissioner of Fisheries to the Secretary of Counnerce and 
Labor, .Tune .W, 1005, page 29: 

Seventh. In short, the old method of gathering sponges by the use of hooks 
affixed to poles operated from the surface has cea.sed to resttlt in profit either 
to the < :|)erator, fishermen, or dealers engaged therein. It was for this reason 
that th(' diving method was introduced, that sponges might be taken from the 
virgin gmunds lying in greater deiitli than 48 feet, and beyond the limit of the 
use of poles and hooks. That gathering sponges by diving in the deetjer waters 
will permit the replenishing of the shallow-water grotnids iu a period of two 
or three years, but the prohibition of the diving method now will inevitably 
destroy the entire industry to our jieople. 

Eighth. In conclusion, recognizing that the Government is as much interested 
in the protection of the sponges as we are, we would suggest from practical ex- 
perience that the only legislation needed and which would accomplish the end 
in view would be a law prohibiting the use of the diving method in waters less 
than 48 feet in deijth. and a further enactment making it unlawful for any per- 
son, persons, or corjioration to take, offer for sale, or have in ])Ossession any 
sponge less than 5 inches in diameter, measured when wet, at its gi-c.-itest diam- 
eter. The passage of such a law would allow the gathering of spong<'s sufficient 
to suppl.v the market and would at the same time, by forcing the sjionges to be 
taken from deeper waters, allow the shallow grounds to recuperate. 

Senate bill 4806 was introduced ]March 1. so that these protests are 
since the introduction of the bill. 

Mr. Sparkman. They have withdrawn those prote.-its. I know 



PROTECTION OF THIC SPONliK INDISTKY. 11 

somethino: alxmt tliat. Soiiator Taliaferro himself is a sto(;kh<>idcr 
and diroctor in tho Kirsi National Hank of Tampa and, np to a few 
years ajro. was its president. Tiie president of tlie bank, wiio is his 
brother, wired him ujwn the introihiction of these bills, in snbstance, 
that thev were objeeted to by the people in that section, many of 
whom were doing bnsiness with the First National Bank and other 
baidvs there: that these people were opposed to the passage of the 
bills, and wonld send protests later against their passage. These pro- 
tests came. l?nt afterwards, when they found out the natures of the 
bills, they withdrew their objection. The ])resident of the bank in 
Tampa nt)t more than two weeks ago told me tiiat he was satisfied, 
that he desired these bills pas>ed. and that he thought all the ])eople. 
with the exception of the (ireeks. desired the same tiling. 

The CuAiioiAX. These people all ^ay that they are citizens of the 
United States. 

Mr. (lOi.uKN. This bill is within the j)ro\isi<>ns of their pi-otest. as 
I i-ead it. 

Mr. ^^'^I.S()^■. \A'ho is this gentleman. John K. Cheyuey, who I'.cads 
this protest ( 

Mr. Spakk.man. He is a man who deals in sponges at Tarpon 
Sjjrings: but I saw the other day in a Tampa paper an interview' 
with him in which he committed himself absolutely to these two bills, 
and said tliei-e was no objection to them. T am satisfied that is 
correct. 

A lawyer in Tampa. I wiis informed, drew the paper refencd to by 
the chairman, and a copy of the same was ^ent to me some weeks ago. 
I have that paj^er, but I did not consider it of any use now. because 
the i)eople who got that up and got those signatures are now in favor 
of the passage of the bills. 

The CiiAiii.MAN. Here is a document of a similar charactei'. signed 
by the president of the Board of Trade of Tarpon Springs, the secre- 
tary, treasurer. State connnissioner. the entire city council, city clerk, 
solicitor, marshal, justices of the peace, notaries public, physicians, 
druggists, merchants, etc. — more people than I thought there were in 
Tarpon Springs. 

Mr. HiNsiiAw. Does not this proviso bring it within the protest: 
■• Sponges taken between October and May in a greater ilepth than 
50 feet should not be subject to the provisions of this act? '' 

Mr. LrrxLiiFiELD. The Fish Commissioner discusses that subject. 
I will read what he says in a few moments. 

Mr. Spaiuvjiax. If you will ])ei'mit me for just one moment. I 
know just how- that document was gotten up and by what influences 
it was gotten up. It was gotten up principally by M\: Cheyney. 
He was doing business w'ith the First National Bank, and he went 
over to Tampa and enlisted the aid of the president and others in 
getting up that protest and getting the sigTiatui'es which you see 
attached to it, protesting against the passage of this bill. 

Afterwards the jjeople of Key AVest themselves came here, and when 
they saw these bills they were satisfied, so I am advised. The people 
of Hillsboro County have conmiunicated with me to some extent, and 
I know from them that numy of the business men and the men who 
got up these protests are now satisfied with this legislation. I can 
state that jKisitively. 



12 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

The Chairimax. Why did not Senator Taliaferro send tliat with- 
drawal here with this hnndle of protests:! 

Mr. LiTTLEi'iEiJ). AA'lio makes the apiilication for this legislation? 

Mr. Sparkman. The Key "West people started it. I have a letter 
from one of the leading Key Westers in favor of this legislation. 
The trouble was with the Hillshoro County people, and, you may 
say, with the Tarpon Springs people. Here is a letter from a man 
who lives there, AA'. H. Decker, who is now running for the State 
legislature in Hillshoro County and will very probably be elected. 
He is a very prominent man there, and I believe his name will appear 
somewhere on that list. He wires me to this eft'ect : 

Try to use your intlueiue witli tlie committee in favor of the consideration of 
the Taliaferro bill. We all favor it here. OiJposition comes from Greeks. 

But if the committee desire to have any further investigation made 
I would be very glad to assist them in any way I can in making it. 
by looking up what the decisions may have been on the subject of 
the power of Congress, or in any other way. 

Mr. Humphrey. I am not yet clear as to the advantage in prohibit- 
ing the bringing of sponges into the United States when they are 
taken outside tlie three-mile limit. ^^Tiat is your answer to the 
objection raised that if the United States did not permit it the fishing 
will be carried on just the same, and the product will be taken to other 
countries ? 

Mr- Spark:man. That was the claim made at first. 

Mr. LiTTLEriELD. Of course if they come in in that way it will wipe 
out the local industry. 

The Chair:max. How van that be prevented:' The (iue--tion is, 
Wiat will be the result of this legislation { 

Mr. Sparkman. In the first place the United States is the largest 
market for sponges gathered so near to the United vStates. and when 
joa consider the tax upon sponges going into Cuba and the tax upon 
them coming into this country (I am told there is a duty upon 
sponges imported into Cuba), it would seem impractical>le to carry 
on the business that way. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. It would be practically prohibitory. 

Mr. Sparkman. Yes; that is what they claim. 

Mr. Humphrey. Is there not practically a sponge trust in this 
coimtry ? Is not 75 per cent of the product controlled by a firm in 
New York, which is urging this resolution ? 

Mr. Sparkman. That I could not tell you: l)ut I should say it is 
quite probable. 

Mr. HujiPHREY. It is my ojiiuion that a firm in New York controls 
the sponge industry in this country, and that they are urging this 
legi lation because of competition from the outside. A firm in New 
York by the name of James, Shell and somebody controls the sjionge 
industry of this country, or at least controls about 75 per cent of the 
output, and they are urging this legislation because this deep-sea 
fishing and the bringing of the products into the United States is 
beyond their control. 

Mr. FoRDNEY. And reducing the price to the consumer. 

Mr. Humphrey. And reducing -the price to the consumer. They 
are trying to control prices. 

The Cn.\iR:\[AN. Yvw only have to have a dream in order to start a 
trust. 



PROTECTION OF THE SPOXOE INDlSTIiY. 13 

Mr. Si-.vHKMAN. I know that tlic a<>ilati<iii caiiii' IVnin the Ki-v West 
pi-opk'. ami tlicy wcic vcrv hittci- alumt it. 

Ml'. IIiMiMiHKY. But I know alioiil tlii>. I know tlicrc i^ a linn 
of this name and that their rcpi-CM'ntalivcs lunc heen hcio iir<>tiig 
this U'irislation. T lunc that niiich information which 1 am sure 
ahont. whether it is iniajiination or in the air or wiiere it is. I have 
irot the man's name, ami lie has been here for the i)urpose of iiiiiing 
this ]e<;islation. 

Mr. Si-AiiKsi.w. 1 -hoiiUl sa\' that it is jxissihle. with the limited 
output, for the product to iret into the hands of what yon mifiiit call 
a trust, but I do know that the agitation oriiiinati'd in Key West. 
There are a great many individuals interested in the sponge business 
at Tarpon Springs who are doing business with the First National 
Bank of Tampa, and notwitlistanding the fact that Senator Talia- 
ferro is a director in that bank, and these ]3rotests were originally 
signed by these ])eoi)le. he thought it was his duty to try to pass it 
through the Senate, as it certainly was. 

Mr. FoKDNEV. May I ask you a question for information? Is it 
not true that the object of bill 4S()() is to prevent the sponges gathered 
in this locality from coming into the Ignited States market, unless 
they are gathered by citizens of the United States? As I understand 
it now. tliey are not being gathered by citizens of the United States, 
and the sole object of the bill is to prevent a lowering of the price 
of sponges in our market. 

Mr. Si'ARKJiAX. No. sir. 

Mr. LrrTLEFiEi.i). Not altogether that. It is to preserve the loi'al 
industry in Florida. 

Mr. FoRDXEY. The local industry does not get these deep-sea fish. 
All of that fishing is done by aliens, and what you want to prevent is 
the j)r()dtu-t from coming into our market. 

Mr. Si-AKKJiAX. We want to prevent aliens from fishing with this 
diving a|)paratus as far as possible. 

Mr. Si'i<niT. In connection with your question. Mr. Sparkman has 
just stated that the taking of these sjionges in this way has I'educed 
the ]jrice of sponges about .">0 ]jer cent. 

Mr. FoHDXEY'. And that is what he wants to prevent. 

Mr. -SpAKKJiAX. I thiidv in the cotirse of time the Americans will 
learn to dive in these diving outfits, but they have not yet learned to 
do so. and 1 luiderstaml it takes three or four years to acquire the art. 

The UiiAiiniAX. I have here a letter dated March 29. from Senator 
Taliaferro's brother, which I thiidi is a pretty sensible letter, and I 
want to call your attention now to it. He says: 

1 lljivp liad il talk with .Mf. Clu'Viu'v. « Im leiiresonts our Aiuliitc friends, and 
lie writes you to-da.\'. 

The positiim of the .\iiclote iieojile is that they oliject to hostile legislation 
that would destroy all hope of spcuriuiT deep-water production : yet th(\v admit 
that, owin;; to the srieat influx of the (Jreeks. some legislation is needed to i)i'e- 
vent the destruction of the industry. The (ireeks continue to swarm in. and 
hoats are heing constructed in New York, along the .\tlantic. and all around the 
Oulf to Xew Orleans. 

It would really ajiiiear that it is imperative to do something promirtly to 
iheck the rapacity of these foreigners. 

From the f(n-egoing you will .see that we are not unwilling to admit that there 
< some merit in the contention of the Key Westers. 

Mr. Cheyney suggests a bill — 

First. I'rohihiting sponge diving (at all times) within water less than .S fath- 
oms deej). 



14 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Socoiid. Prohibit spouge diving during tlie five mouths froiu May 1 to Octo- 
ber 1. 

Third. Prohibit aliens from talving sponges (either as fishermen, boat owners, 
or operators). 

Fourth. Prolnl)it any person, ronipauy, or corporation to gather any sponge 
of less than ." inches in diameter, measured when wet at its greatest diameter. 

It seems to nie such a liill would accomplish great good and at the same time 
satisfy both Key West and Anclote, because, first. Key West can not take 
sponges at a greater depth than 8 fathoms : second, the hookers practically do 
all of their sponge fishing during the months from May 1 to October 1, when 
operators (I mean divers) would be barred. 

The third and fourth clauses I understand Key West is asking for. Of 
course it dees apjiear, and is, inconsistent to prohibit diving from Jlay 1 to 
October I and allow hooking, and as a matter of fact the hooking should also 
be prohibited, too, for reasons to follow, but the Anclote people realize that those 
are the mouths the weather suits for hooking, and they do not want to hurt 
those people. 

As we understand it, there is no bill pending against hooking, and we here 
want no restrictions placed thereon. There is a bill, however, against diving, 
and as a compromise we suggest the four clauses aforestated. 

It is claimed that the time suggested for " the closed season " — May 1 to 
October 1 — is the season when the sponge reproduce or throw off their ova. 
They say the Fish Commission would certify this to be a fact, hence, really no 
sponges should be taken at such time: but the shoal water is a small item com- 
pared with the other beds, and our people would rather satisfy them and leave 
it so the hookers or Key Westers may take the sponges when and where they 
can get them. 

I lan .see no objeetion to such a bill, and if it he enacted I believe it would 
satisfy all concerned but the im|iecunious Greek, and he needs the check. 

Pardon the length of this, but I could not cover the ground sooner. 

Mr. Spakkman. Notwithstanding that letter. I talked with Mr. 
Taliaferro in Tampa the other day. and he told nie the objection to 
the bills had been withdrawn. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. Here is a letter from the Commissioner of Fish- 
eries, which goes over this same ground. 

The Chairman. I have a 16-page argument in favor of the passage 
of these bills, submitted by James Shell & Elkers, of New York, on 
yesterday. 

Mr. HrjiPiiKEY. That is the firm I had reference to. I do not 
state that they are a trust, but do state as a fact that they are here, 
and that they lia\e their agent here. 

The Chairman. T think that if the committee agrees with me we 
should give a little more consideration to these bills before recom- 
mending their passage. 

Mr. LiTTLEFiELD. I think we should look into it a little more. On 
general principles I would be glad to do anything we can legitimately 
do to take care of Brother .Sparkman's people. So far as I am con- 
cerned. T am perfectly willing to take care of his people down there ; 
but I find that the Commissioner of Fisheries suggests some difficulty 
in the line I suggested about our legal power to pass these bills; so 
that I was not the one to discover that objection. 

The Chairman. Suppose we refer this sul)ject to a selected commit- 
tee of five to consider and report at the next meeting a week from to- 
day? I call the attention of Mr. Sparkman to the suggestions that 
have been made here, and ask him to prepare an argument in regard 
to the matter. 

The chair will appoint Mr. Hinshaw, Mr. Birdsall, Mr. Wilson, 
]Mr. Spight, and Mr. Patterson as a select committee to consider this 
matter. The papers are all with the secretary. 



PROTECTION OF THE SPOXGE IXDl"STRY. 15 

COMJIITTEE OX MeRCIIAN r MaKIM: AM) FlSHKltlES, 

House of Kepkesentatives. 
Washiiu/ton. D. C, April 25, 1906. 
The subcommittee met at 2 o'clock p. m.. lion. Edward H. Hiii- 
shaw in the chair. 

The CiiAiiniAN. We will first hear from Doctor Smith, who has 
come here from tlic Department at our re(jiiest to give us some in- 
formation of an original cliaracler with reference to sponges, and the 
depth of water in which thev arc ])i-i)iliiced. 

STATEMENT OF HON. HUGH M. SMITH, OF THE DEPARTMENT OF 
COMMERCE AND LABOR. 

Mr. Smuii. Mr. Chairman. I did not conic licrc [ircparcd to 
make an agnunent. as I did not Icnow upon exactly wlnit 
lines yon would want me to speak. The ftiireau of Fisheries lias 
been interested in the sponge industry f(U' a great many years. I 
iiave personally investigated the sponge l)eds in Florida and else- 
where, and we have had numerous investigations made, some at the 
ret|uest of C<tngress. We have endeavored to kee[i v,-ell informed 
as to the condition of the industry, and we are in a position to give 
the committee such information as it may desire. 

The Chairman. I would suggest to the members of vhe s,ib((,m- 
mittee that if they desire to ask any (juestions. Doctor Smith is here 
for the purpose of answering them and giving us such information 
as w(> want. 

Mr. Siirrii. There seems to be a good dt'al of doubt as to what a 
sponge really is. For many years it was regarded as a plant ; later 
on it was thought to be on the border line between the plant and 
the animal kingdom: but we have now learned that it is an animal, 
:;nd not very low down in the scale. The sponge, as we know it 
in common use. is simply the skeleton of a colony of animals whicli 
inlial)ited that skeleton. 

Mr. W1L.S0X. What kind of animals inhabit the skeleton? 

Mr. Smith. The animals are single cells. 

Mr. WiLsox. Are they all of the same kind I 

Mr. S.MiTii. They are all microscoinc and have different functions. 
Yon can comi)are a sponge to a hive of bees. Some of the bees are 
for tile purpose of keeping up the hi\e by reproduction, and some are 
for replenishing the supply of honey and extending the comb. 

Mr. Spigiit. AMiat has your investigation led you to conclude as 
to the manner of propagation? 

Mr. Sjiitii. Sponges propagate, as all animals do. by means of 
eggs. The eggs are fertilized within the s|)onge and are thrown off 
by the currents of water which circulate through the sponge, coming 
out as minute round bodies, covered with hairs, which have the 
power of movement. They pulsate and enable the young ones to 
move around in the water and to ptii'sue a free swimming existence 
for several days. 

The CiiAiRMAX. How far does it move from the parent before it 
attaches to some substance? 

Mr. Sjiitii. It may be carried for long distances by the currents, 
but finallv it falls to the bottom and thenceforth is fixed. 



16 PROTECTIOiS: OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. Si>i(;ht. Docs it attacli Id anything excejDt rock ^ 

Mr. Smith. Yes; it will attach itself to vegetable matter, to wood, 
lalants. and also to shells and bottles just as an oyster would. 

The Chairman. How far out into the sea does this occur ? In what 
depth of water? 

Mr. Smith. We have never been able to learn just how far out 
into the (iulf of Mexico sponges extend, as diving has only recently 
begun: but we know that they gTow at a depth of 50 feet and a 
little over, because the hookers can reach them there and have reached 
them there. The recent inception of diving has sliown that the 
sponges grow in deeper waters. 

Mr. Wilson. Do they form themselves into little schools, or may 
they be found in any part of the bottom of the sea ? 

Mr. Smith. The young settle to the hard bottom. If they get into 
the sand or the mud, they will be covered and destroyed; so that 
the best s])onges grow on the hard coralline bottom that crops out 
all along the west coast of Florida and about the Florida Keys. 

Mr. AViLSON. Do you think that the divers, by walking along the 
bottom of the ocean where they are found, would be likely to destroy 
the growth of these sponges by stepping on them? 

Mr. Sjhith. I think it is possible for divers to injure the sponges 
growing on the bottom ; but I myself do not believe that is a very 
serious menace to the sponge industry. 

Mr. Wilson. You do not think it is? 

Mr. Smith. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Wilson. Are you familiar with these bills, which are before 
the House ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. sir; and we think that the sponge industry of 
Florida needs some attention. Florida is the only State where 
sponges grow, and suitable ju'otective measures should be instituted 
by the Government and the State, or by both, to keep up the supply 
indefinitely. 

The Chairman. Do you think that diving threatens the existence 
of the sponges ? 

Mr. Smith. It wx)uld ajijiear so to us. from the study we have been 
able to give the matter. 

Mr. AViLSON. I thought you said you did not think it would. 

Mr. Smith. I understood you to refer to injury to the sponges by 
reason of the shoes of the diver. 

Mr. Spight. Then I understand you think that destruction will be 
due to taking the sponges in such large quantities? 

Mr.' Smith. In the depletion of the sponge beds. 

Mr. Spioht. If that is so with reference to diving, why is it not 
also true with reference to continuous hooking? 

Mr. Sjiith. That is a very apt question, and I am prepared to 
answer it. The sponge industi-y has been prosecuted by means of 
hooks for many years, and limitations on the capture of sponges 
have been, to a considerable extent, imposed by nature. For instance, 
sponging can not be carried on when the water is rough. 

Mr. Spight. You mean hooking. 

Mr. Smith. Yes; hooking. Furthermore, in the course of every 
tW'O or three years the water becomes cloudy, and when that condition 
of water exists, as it does over large areas on the west coast of 
Florida, it is not possible to see the bottom, and consequently the 



rUDIKClIOX OK rilK Sl'OXCK INDI'STKV. 17 

spoiifvc's iiri' inDtccli'tl l)y iialiirc and llu'v liave i\ season for recuiwra- 
tion. Tlu' cloudy water may continue for several seasons in succes- 
sion, so that a l)ed which has been stripped pretty clean of sponjjes of 
a niarketahle size \\ ill. as a result of this cloudy water, i)e al)le to 
reassert itself. 

Mr. P.\rri:ns().N. llow lon^- will that take? 

-Mr. SMrrii. As determined by some experiments that we liave been 
niakin,<>:. the <rrowth is not very rai)id: but a sponge which is much 
loo small to be taken to market will jjrobably increase in one season 
to a marketable size. 

If your committee is suliiciently interested in it, I would like to 
show you a few sponges I have here, which will enable me to do a 
little missionary work for the Bureau of Fisheries in this regard, 
because we have anticipated the depletion of the Florida sponge 
grounds. Although the sponge industry is only a little over fifty 
years old. a very large pro]iortion of the ground on which sponges 
originally grew has been dejjlcted. All of th(> inshore gi-ounds, the 
shoal-water grounds. ar(> absolutely exhausted: they wore naturally 
the first to be depleted. 

Mr. HiN.sii.vw. They have been depleted by the hookers? 

Mr. SMrni. Yes: and every season the hookers have had to carry 
their operations into deeper waters, until now they have reached the 
limit. There is one point in regard to these dee|)-water s))onges 
which the divers are supplying to the market and which can not be 
reached by the hookers. It is quite possible that these sponges snp- 
lily the seed by which the grounds farther inshore are kept up. 
Cei-tainly the sponges in GO feet of water, which are large sponges, 
will liberate every year millions and millions of eggs, and are able to 
distribute their jirogeny over a very large area. Of course most 
of those eggs are lost, as they fall on a soft bottom and are destroyed, 
just as is the case with manv fishes. They lav a million of eggs, but 
999.000 are lost. 

The sponge, as it comes out of the water, is a very different look- 
ing animal from what it is in the drug store. Here is one which has 
been preserved with the soft matter intact. It ha.s a black, slimy 
skin, whiclr covers the outside for the protection of the interior, 
which is filled with soft matter, and which has to be rotted out before 
the sponge is put on the market. 

The CHAiR>rAx. Is that a sponge just as it comes out of the water? 

Mr. S:\riTH. Yes: it has been preserved to jjrevent it from smelling. 

Mr. WiLsox. I should think it would be a hard matter to hook 
these s])onges in water of any considerable depth. 

Mr. Smith. It is a difficult matter. It is a very laborious opera- 
tion, especially in deep water, when the waves are running. The man 
has to lean over the boat with his chest on the gunwale. 

There is a double set of canals in the sponge, through some of which 
the water runs from the outside to the inside, and through the others, 
the larger canals, in which water runs from within outward. In the 
smaller canals, leading from without inward, are little dilated pas- 
sages, and they are lined with small cells which have hairs in them ; 
and those hairs are working one direction, like a field of grain with 
the wind blowing over it. The hairs determine the existence of the 
current.s, which are essential for the gi-owth of the sponge. 



18 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. AViLSON. Has not this siiccinion been cut in two? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; that lias been cut in two to show the interior of 
the sponge. I have here also a few commercial sponges. Here is one 
showing what can be done with a Floi-ida sheep"s-wool sponge when 
properly treated. I may say here that for all the purposes for which 
we use sponges — for toilet, mechanical, and other uses — there is no 
sponge produced anywhere in the world which will comijare with the 
Florida sheep's-wool sponge. 

Mr. Wilson. Do yon mean that is the best sponge produced ? 

Mr. Smith. It is the best quality of sponge for toilet and otlier 
purposes. 

The Chairman. Is that a Rock Island sponge? 

Mr. Smith. Is is essentially the same as a Kock Island sponge; it 
is the same species. For lasting (luality and durability there is no 
sponge put on the market to-day that will compare with or com- 
pete with our Florida sijonge, and for that reason, if for no other, 
we ought to do what w^e can to keep up the supply. 

The Chairman. And this sheep's-wool sponge is threatened with 
extinction ? 

Mr. Smith. The supply of it is certainly decreasing on our own 
grounds. 

Mr. WiL.soN. How old is this sponge you have here? 

Mr. Smith. The growth of a sponge, like the growth of a fish, 
depends upon its food. Under favorable conditions I should say 
that sponge might reach such a size in three or four years. It is 
probably not less than three or four years old. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. Is that IJock Island s])onge the same character and 
quality of sponge that is now being taken by the divers? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; that is the kind of sponge the divers are taking. 

Mr. Wilson. WIvaI is the cause of the color? 

Mr. Smith. It is this color when it comes out of the water; but as 
the result of bleaching and cleaning it becomes lighter. This one 
has been artificially bleached. 

Mr. Wilson. This is the natural color of the si:)onge? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

The Chairman. We have been told here that these sponges in the 
markets have some of this substance left in them. 

Mr. Smith. Yes; the trade seems to require it. 

The Chairman. These do not appear to have it. 

Mr. Smith. No, sir; they are cleaned; but that substance increases 
their weight. From what I know of the business, I believe that the 
sponge packers do not care for that particularly, but the trade seems 
to demand it. 

The Chairman. Do you mean the wholesale or the retail trade? 

Mr. Smith. The jobbing trade. We have been experimenting in 
the growing of sponges from clippings, and I believe those experi- 
ments will not be remotely connected with the question of preserving 
the supply of sponges on the Florida coast. We have found that by 
cutting up sponges of such a shape that they do not have much 
market value, we can grow from those cuttings sponges that are 
superior to the wild ones. It is done in a very simple "way and in 
a comparatively short time. We are still working along that line. 

Tlie Chairman. It is done by some sort of cultivation? 



PROTKCTIOX OF THE SPONCK INDl'STHY. 19 

.Mr. Smiim. ^\'s: liy simply attaclilnjr tin' cntliiii^s to wires or 
otlicr siihstaiuTs to hold tlu'iii in place imtil lliey jrrow. 

Mr. AVii.sox. Do you feed tlieiii^ 

.Mr. S.Mrrii. Xo: tliev teed tliemselves. A\'e simply ]in)vide the 
raw materials. Spoiiire cuttinjrs. which are cuboidal in sha])e, when 
put into the water very ([uicUly assume a synnnetrical sha])e. These 
are spona'i's which have been jirown from cnttinjis on the west coast 
of Florida, near .Vnclote Keys. These are regular Rock Island 
spon<ies. 

Mr. Wilson. The ])rrpai'ation of this spon<jfe has nothintr to do 
with the stiffness of it ^ 

Mr. Smith. No; that is inherent in the sponge. 

Mr. Spicht. Von have to make these cuttings and plant them when 
the sponge is fresh out of the water? 

Mr. S.mith. a sponge can be kej)t out of the water for some time 
if cool and moist: ]K>rhaps for several days. AA'e have adopted the 
l)lan of attaching the clip])ings to wires and suspending those wires 
Ix'tween stakes set about .")0 feet a]iart ai\d putting the sponges a few 
feet under the surface. 

ifr. BiKDSAi.i.. In salt water, of course? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. We have three experimental farms on the P'lor- 
i(hi coast, where we are trying to perfect the method of growing 
sponges in large quantities. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. In its natural state, does the jjrocess of reproduc- 
tion go on continually? 

Mr. Smith. So far as we know, the sponge spawns every year. 

Mr. BiHDSAi.L. And in every portion of the year? 

Mr. Sjiith. Yes: but in Florida mostly in waiin weather — in the 
Slimmer months. 

Mr. BiRDSALi,. Have yon any idea in what months? 

Mr. Sjiitii. I should say from the 1st of June until August. We 
know that in the Mediterranean the sjjawning season for the sponge 
may extend over the entire year. Probably there is a period of the 
year when more sponges spawn than in any other time; but ripe 
sponges have been gotten in the Mediterranean in every month of the 
year. 

The Chairjiax. Some one stated here yesterday that these sponges 
are covered with a thick membrane around them. 

Mr. SariTH. Yes: that is for the protection of the sponge. 

The Chairsiax. And if that membrane is broken the eggs float 
away. 

Mr. Smith. The eggs come out through the holes in the black mem- 
brane. In making our cuttings we have thought it essential to have 
a i)art of this black membrane on each, so that the sponge may re- 
cover itself. These I have here are about three years old. and they are 
superior to the wild sponges. 

Mr. WiLsox. Are these artificially grown? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

The CiiAiRMAX'. Do they grow right on the wires? 

Mr. Smith. They grow right on the wires suspended above the 
bottom. They have a firmer texture, in many instances, than the 
"wild sponges, and are better in other respects. 

Mr. AA'iLSON. It does not look to me to be as good a sponge as the 
other. 



20 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. Smith. The color is not so pleasing, but that has nothing to 
do with the quality, of course. 

Mr. Wilson. It seems to be more porous and much more solid. 

Mr. Smith. Yes; and that is a point in its favor. It is firmer in 
its texture and will therefore last longer. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. The danger which the Department apprehends is 
that the excessive I'emoval of sponges will prevent sufficient rejiro- 
duction. 

Mr. Smith. It is possible that by going upon the sponge bottoms 
and removing practically every sponge the beds may be permanently 
destroyed. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. That comes from the removal of the parent sponge. 

Mr. Smith. The divers can keep the bottoms swept clean when the 
hooker, fishing 40 or 50 feet above, will not be able to do it. In ad- 
dition to that, as I say, once in every three or four years the sponge 
grounds are protected by nature, because of the cloudiness of the 
water, when the sijongers are unable to work. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. What do you think of the proposition of having a 
closed season for sponges the same as we have inland for fish and 
game? 

Mr. Smith. We have recommended that to the State of Florida 
and made a number of other recommendations to the State; but 
Florida has not done for the sponge industry what it should have 
done. This is a matter which seems to be beyond the scope of the 
State; and it seems to me the General Government will have to step 
in. We have advocated the setting aside of certain areas in which 
no sponging shall be permitted for a period of years, and at the ex- 
piration of that time to open them up and close an adjoining area. 

Mr. Spight. You mean, of course, within the 3-mile limit? 

Mr. Smith. Anywhere. Unfortunately most of the sponges grow 
beyond the State's jurisdiction. 

Mr. Spight. How could you control it beyond the 3-mile limit? 

Mr. Smith. That is a question for the lawyers. It might be con- 
trolled through the customs service. I do not know of any other way. 

Mr. Spight. I would like to ask your oijinion as to the greatest 
depth at which these sponges have been found. 

Mr. Smith. In the Mediterranean they are found in water several 
hundred feet deep, but we do not know of any sponges in our waters 
growing at such a depth. 

Mr. Spight. You do not know that they do not? 

Mr. Smith. No; we do not. 

Mr. Spight. So far as your information goes, you have found 
sponges in that locality ? 

Mr. Smith. We know that sponges grow on the Florida coast up 
to 60 feet or 70 feet, but whether they grow in water, say at a depth 
of 150 feet, we do not know. 

Mr. Spight. You do not know beyond the 60 or 70 feet? 

Mr. Smith. No, sir. 

Mr. Wilson. How deep can a diver go ? 

Mr. Smith. I do not loiow. I have had no experience in that busi- 
ness. There are some practical sjionge dealers here who would know 
that. 

The Chairman. This bill before us does not prohibit the hookers 
working in 50 feet of water; but you say those beds are depleted. 
Will this bill do anything for them? 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 21 

Mr. Smith. Tliis liill will not affect the operations of the hookers 
at all. 

The Cu.uisMAN. It will not rei)leiiish these depleted beds. 

Mr. Smith. No; it will simply ]5revent another element of destruc- 
tion from eomine: in. The divers will luuloubtedly hasten the deple- 
tion of the beds. AVhether yon want to permit them to work in 
waters beyond the reach of the hookers is another (jnestion. Person- 
ally I do not see. if they confine their operations to the deeper waters, 
that they would do any special harm; but it will be a very difficult 
matter to determine whether they fret their sponires in water 70 feet 
deep or in water 20 feet deep. 

Mr. BiRus.\LL. Suppose that we prohibit diviufi" within the 3-mile 
limit? 

.Mi-. Smith. That would hardly help matters, because mo.st of the 
divine: is done beyond the 3-mile limit. It is done practically on the 
high seas. The water on the west coast of Florida is very shallow. 
You go out for many miles before you reach a depth of 50 feet. There 
are places where a depth of 50 feet is not reached until you are 30 or 
40 miles offshore. * 

Mr. T.,iNi)HEnr. ilr. Chairman, may T ask Mr. Smith to exphiin 
what he knows about the depletion of the spono;e beds in the Medi- 
terranean by reason of the divers cleaning out beds ? 

Mr. Smith. I have not had an opportunity to look the matter up 
recently, but it is within my knowledge that the beds have been de- 
]ileted. and the governments interested have had to take measures to 
protect the beds by imposing a closed season and by taxing the men, 
no that it was difficult for them to ply their trades. 

The Chairman. By a license tax? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. BiROSALL. What is the process of curing a sponge when it is 
taken out of the water? 

Mr. Smith. A sponge must be kept out of the water for some 
time in order to kill it. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. How long? 

Mr. Sjiith. It depends on the temperature; but for several days, 
at any rate, and j^erhaps longer, under certain conditions. Sponges 
are first ke]3t on the deck of the sjionge vessels, then carried ashore 
and put into shallow inclosures, where they are allowed to rot and 
at the same time to bleach. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. How is this substance removed from them? 

Mr. Smith. By squeezing and beating. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. Craals were mentioned here the other day. A^liat 
are they? 

^Ir. S^iiTH. Craals are inclosures in which the sponges are allowed 
to rot. so that all the soft aniiual matter goes out of them and the 
skeleton is left. Then, when the cleaning has been completed, the 
men take their sponges and string them and carry them to market. 
The sj)onges are sold in strings and at auction. 

Mr. Serai'hu-. You speak of the depletion of the sponge beds in 
the Mediterranean. I would like to know how you determined that. 

Mr. Smith. One evidence of that is the presence of the Greek divers 
on our coast. If they were al)l(' to carry on a profitable business at 
home they would not be here. 

Mr. SKiiAi'iuc. Tlicn it is sini[)ly a supposition? 



22 PEOTECTION OF THE SPONGE IKDTJSTEY. 

Mr. Smith. No. There are reports from the United States consuls 
in the Mediterranean ports showing the depletion of the sponge 
grounds of the Mediterranean and the measures taken by the gov- 
ernments to protect the sponges ; but I have not looked int« the mat- 
ter recently and am not prepared to make any very definite statement. 

Jilr. BiRDSALL. Suppose we prohibit diving and the imjiortation of 
sponges taken by diving, the effect would l)e to confine tlie inchistry 
to the hookers, would it not? It woukl accelerate their business and 
increase the amount taken out, otherwise sponges would have to be 
imported. 

Mr. Smith. The advent of diving has undoubtedly led to a great 
increase in the sponge supply, with the residt of a fall in the price. 

Mx\ BiRDSALL. Of course there will be every effoi-t made to supply 
the demand. 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. As I understand it, you are relying upon natural 
conditions to prevent any excessive supply from being taken out. 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; and to j^revent the absolute depletion of the 
grounds. 

Mr. Seraphic. Prior to the introduction of diving, do you know 
what the output of sponges from the Florida coast was? 

Mr. Smith. The value of the sponge industry on the Florida coast 
has been about $400,000 a year to the hookers. 

Mr. Seraphic. What was the area over which the fishing was done 
by the hookers, which resulted in a product of $400,000 a year, as 
compared with the area of territory that the diving method covers? 

Mr. Smith. Diving has only begun. It has been carried on only 
for a very short time, and they are covering only a portion of the 
northern grounds in the Gulf of Mexico. There are other gi'ounds 
on the Florida coast where hookers have had full swing; but being 
shallow-water grounds, they have become depleted, and the sponges 
from those grounds now cut a very small figure in the market. The 
area of the sponge grounds on the Florida coast, as we surveyed them 
four or five years ago, was between three and four thousand square 
miles. That included all kinds of sponges and all degrees of thick- 
ness of growth. There are five or six different kinds — yellow s]ionges, 
grass sponges, etc. — which have a certain market value but which are 
very much cheaper than these. They are used mostly in the me- 
chanical arts, but not for toilet purposes, because their texture is too 
hard. 

Mr. Lindheiji. Is it not true that the introduction of diving, 
within the past nine montlis, has increased the production very 
largely ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; out of all proportion to the supposed resources 
of the grounds. 

Mr. Lindheim. Would not the passage of these bills draw the 
sponge industry to its original output plus the seven months of 
diving; in other words, there would still be an increased production? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; in the opinion of the bureau the bill does not go 
far enough. 

The Chairman. If these beds within the range of the hooker have 
been depleted, how will the output be increased to supply the de- 
mand ? 



PROTECTION OF TUE SPONCE INDUSTHV. 23 

.Mr. Smith. Tlic intal >u|)|ilv of sjjoiifrcs fi'oiii (lie Anici'ifaii waters 
lias l)oen Ici'pt up liy takiuii larfrt'r (|uaiiliti('s of the choapor firades. 
I have some iifiurcs Iutc which will show you how the percentage of 
sheepswool spoii<ies has declined from year to year, which is a very 
significant fact in itself. Unfortunately there are no fif^ures prior 
to ISit."). hilt in that year the ])r()portion of sheepswool s])on<;e to tho 
total take was 7G i)er cent. In the next ye<ir it has fallen otf to G3 
per cent ; in the next year to 47 per cent, and in the year 1!)02, the last 
year foi- which we collected any accurate and complete statistics, the 
proportion of sheejjswool s]ion<res to the total take was only 38 per 
cent. In tlH> early days of the sponire fishery practically all the 
sponges were of this grade, as it was not considered woi'th while to 
take the cheaper grades. 

The CiiAiini.vN. How does the price now compare with what it was 
a year or two years ago ( 

Mr. Smith. The price at present is very low. 

The CiiAiR.MAX. This is a more expensive sponge than the coarser 
grade you refer to? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Si'iGHT. If the diving Avere prevented, would tlie hookers be 
able to supply the demand ? 

Mr. SiiiTH. No: l)ecause we are obliged to import more sponges 
than we take. 

Mr. Spight. The hookers could not supply the home demand for 
sponges ? 

Mr. Smith. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Spight. Because they can not go beyond the depth of 48 or 
50 feet ? ■ 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Spight. So that all sponges beyond that depth would either 
be abandoned entirely or else be taken and carried to foreign points 
and im]3orted through the custom-house if we got them at all? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Spight. That state of affairs and the curtailment of the 
product to that extent would necessarily increase the price of sponges 
to the consumer, would it not ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes: I suppose that would be the natural consequence. 

Mr. LixoHF.iM. Is not that taken care of forever by allowing 
diving for seven montlis in the year? 

Mr. Sjiith. The dealers would be better al)lc to answer questions of 
trade than I am. The value of these deep-water grounds is quite 
problematical. It may be that they serve no us(>ful purpose, and it 
may be that they furnish the seed by which the shoal-water grounds 
are rejilenished. 

Mr. Spight. That is what occurred to me a while ago when I was 
asking you about the depth of water in which they are found. If 
I understood you correctly, you stated that when these eggs are 
thrown off from the sponge thev float on the water and may be carried 
considerable distances. 

Mr. Smith. Yes: they float for forty-eight hours under certain 
conditions. 

Mr. Si'igiit. If they are found at a very much greater dejitli than 
you have ever gone to find them, they could fertilize a large area of 
tlie country around them in the shoal waters, could they not? 



24 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. Smith. Yes; that is the i:)oint. If they have any vahie, it is 
for that purpose. 

Mr. Spight. So that while there might be a depletion in depths 
more than 70 feet of water if they are constantly fished, yet the eggs 
from the deeper water would so fertilize that ground again that it 
would not be depleted. 

Mr. Smith. It may l)e that the existence of the deep-water sponges 
has accounted for the rapidity with which certain grounds have been 
reestablished. The hookers have so frequently repeated stories of 
the apparent cleaning out of a certain gi-ound in a certain season, so 
far as marketable sponges are concerned, and of going back two or 
three years later, after a season of cloudy water, and finding the 
grounds just as thickly covered as ever, that we are bound to believe 
them. It would seem to me that to lea\-e sponges on the ground for 
this vei-y short closed season would liardly be sufficient to reestablish 
the beds on the scale they are found to lie reestalilished. 

Mr. Spight. So they must come from somewhere else ? 

Mr. Smith. There is no reason why young sponges in some stages 
could not be carried for many miles as are the eggs of the oyster, the 
young of which are very much like the young of the sponge. 

Mr. Spight. Have your experiments led you to conclude that arti- 
ficial cultivation of sponges can be made profitable ? 

Mr. Smith. We are hardly prepared to recommend a method yet; 
but our experiments indicate that it is going to be profitable. I may 
say that one of the sponge packers and buyers in Florida has thought 
enough of our methods to go into it, and has already marketed some 
sponges grown from cuttings. 

Mr. Seraphic. You stated that the bureau had recommended to the 
State of Florida that some plan should be adopted by which the 
grounds would be left for a certain period to recuperate and then 
fishing be permitted in them. Have you stated the time or period of 
this suspension which you recommend ? 

Mr. Smith. No: the details were never discussed. It was simply 
a general proposition. 

Mr. Seraphic. You stated that the life of a sponge 4 or 5 inches in 
diameter would not he less than three or four years. The statutes of 
the State of Florida provide that no sponges shall be .sold less than 4 
inches in diameter. Do you think that a seven months' closed season 
will suffice to recuperate any sponge beds on which fishing has been 
done ? 

Mr. Smith. No ; we advocate a three or five year closed season. 

Mr. Seraphic. According to your statement the best plan of regu- 
lating and ]:)reserving the product of the sponge industry would be a 
division of the coast into districts. 

Mr. Smith. That is simply one measure for relief. 

Mr. Seraphic. And that a closed season will not protect the sponge 
industry, as the time is not sufficient for the sponges to recuperate. 

Mr. Smith. The closed season proposed in this bill is only useful 
in diminishing by five months the operations of the divers, as they 
will presumably get only about seven-twelfths of their present catch. 

Mr. Seraphic. Thcu.'llic purpose is siui])ly to limit the output of 
sponges. 

Mr. Smith. Perhaps the bureau has gone too far in this matter, 
but in a statement made by the Commissioner to one of the Florida 



PROTF.CTIOX or TIIK SPOXGE IXDrSTRV. 25 

Senators who is pailinilailv iiitori'sted in this niatliT. it was sug- 
gested that if (ii\in<i: is injurious, there is no reason for aHowing it 
at all. If yon permit any diving, wiiy restrict it to seven months? 

Mr. Sr.uuvM.VN. ^'on said a moment ago that the hill did not go 
far enough. 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Spakkman. Is there any other i)articuhir in whirh this l)ill 
does not reach the requirements of the situation^ 

jSIr. Smith. That was only a suggestion made to Senator Talia- 
ferro. Those who have interests in the State, commercial and other- 
wise, will ha\(' to work out this matter for themselves: but from our 
standpoint of the preservation of the sjninge hcds it seems rather ex- 
traordinary to permit an injurious occui)ation for seven months out 
of twelve. 

Mr. Spark.man. I would like to ask you to state, if you have any 
matured o])inion on the subject, just what kind of a bill you would 
have passed, if any at all, to protect the sponge industry? 

Mr. Smith. I thiidc the bill as passed by the Senate is reasonably 
satisfactory. It will undoubtedly secure some protection for the 
sponges, and perhaps it may lead to more effective legislation if the 
conditions seem to require it. Perhaps as a temporary expedient it 
will suffice. My own opinion is that within two or three years the 
divers will be out of business as well as the hookers. The hookers 
will go out of business before that. 

Mr. Spakkman. Yon mean whether this bill passes or not? 

Mr. Smith. Yes; the bill will delay the time when the grounds 
will be depleted, but it will not prevent the depletion. 

Mr. Sparkjian. You have stated that the sponge area oft' the coast 
of Florida was about three or four thousand miles. 

Mr. Smith. Three or four thousand square miles, including the 
Key grounds. 

Mr. Sparkman. Of course you include the waters outside the juris- 
diction of the United States ? 

Mr. Smith. That includes all the grounds \Yhere we found sponges 
growing, so far as we know. They practically stopjied near the .^O- 
foot depth of water, because at that time we did not know of the 
existence of sponges in any great numbers beyond that depth. 

Mr. Sparkmax. Do you know whether it is a fact that divers have 
already found sponges in much deeper water? 

Mr. SiiiTH. I have understood that they have found them in depths 
of 60 or 70 feet and even deeper. 

Mr. Sparkmax. I understood some one to say here the other day 
that they had found them in 150 feet of water. 

Mr. Seraphic. I stated that. 

Mr. Sparkjiax. How far north, up the coast, does the area extend '. 

Mr. Smith. Oft" St. Marks. 

Mr. Sparkmax. Aud not to the westward of St. Marks? 

Mr. Smith. We do not know of any along the shores to the west- 
ward, but it is quite possible that there are sponge grounds on the 
lower part of the west coast of Florida, where, owing to the turbidity 
of the water, it is not possible for the hookers to operate. There have 
been a few sponges gotten there from time to time when there has 
been a temporary period of clear water. There is no reason why 



26 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

sponges should not grow thiTe, and it may be that there are large 
areas in that locality. 

Mr. Wilson. The divers have not yet been there ? 

]Mr. Smith. No: they have confined their operations to the north 
part of the west coast. 

Senator Taliaferro. Treating this bill as rather experimental, 
would you recommend a longer closed season than fi\'e months? 

Mr. Smith. I suppose that if you are going to permit diving at 
all, five months' closed season is about as long a time as the men can 
stand. If the closed season is made longer they w'ill be unable to 
make a living and maintain themselves. 

Senator Taliaferro. Do you think the bill in its present form is 
one which the Commission could recommend as an experimental 
measure for the preservation of this industry ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. sir; we think it is along the right lines, but it 
remains to be seen whether additional legislation will be required by 
the conditions there. 

Senator Taliaferro. Some more drastic legislation l 

Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. 

Senator Taliaferro. Are you informed as to the number of diving 
boats now engaged in this Itusiness? 

Mr. Smith. We understand that there are about 40. The last re- 
port we had indicated that number. 

ilr. Patterson. I understood it to be stated here that there were 
al)out 70 at the present time. 

Mr. Smith. There has been a great increase recently. 

Mr. CiiEYNEY. I think there are about 70. 

Mr. Smith. Tlie last re]iort we had showed only about 40. 

Senatttr Taliaferro. My information is that a fleet of these diving 
boats has been recently sent out from Pensacola, which is rather a 
new point. 

Mr. Smith. That is a new departure, for Pensacola has had no in- 
terest in the sponge fisheries heretofore. 

Air. Wilson. They seem to be working a good thing to death. 

Mr. Seraphic. Have you ever heard reports from snapper fishing 
fleets out of Pensacola as to their catching sponges of exactly the 
same quality as these, while fishing for snappers, in 20. 30, 40. and 60 
fathoms of water i 

Mr. Smith. I never have. The snapper vessels fish far oflshore, 
in deeji water, as you indicate, but it woidd be a very difficult matter 
for a snapper hook to bring up one of these sponges. It has to be 
torn from the bottom by main force. 

Senator Taliaferro. Has your bureau recently heard of any un- 
usual number of Greek divers going upon the Florida coast ? 

Mr. Smith. Xo, sir; we have no information on that subject. This 
industry, gentlemen, is one of great importance to Florida. There 
are over 2,000 people engaged in it, exclusive of<the Greek divers who 
have recently come in, and many hundreds of thousands of dollars 
are invested in vessels, boats, and shore property. We believe that 
with proper precautions the industry can be made permanent and 
the output can be increased, but as it is now being conducted its 
future is quite precarious. 

The Chairman. AVe will now hear from Mr. Cheyney. 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONOE INDUSTRY. 27 

STATEMENT OF JOHN K. CHEYNEY. OF TARPON SPRINGS. FLA. 

Mr. C'liKVNKV. 1 am hardly prciiarcd lo make any aildrcss or pre- 
sent an ai'<riiiiRMit in a foiiiial way. as I lia\c not iJi-cparcd myself 
witli any notes, but I woidd liUe to say, by wav of explanation, that 
I went to Florida sixteen years ago from Pinladel|)liia, which was 
my home, and liave since been a resident of Tarpon S|)rin<>:s. I im- 
mediately entraged in the sijonge bnsiness at that ])oint, starting it 
there. That was the establishment of the s])onge business at that 
point, and I ha\(' been aetivi-ly engaged in it ever since. There are 
now a nmnber of others engaged in the same business at that place, 
wlio have come there from time to time during that period. 

My pin-pose here is simply to urge, on behalf of onr industry and 
the other interests in that locality, the passage of this bill, believing 
that it is absolutely essential to the ])ernianent maintenance of the 
industry at that point. Lately, tiiid wilhin the last year, the diving 
bnsiness has been introduced at that point and at some other points. 
Tarpon Sjirings being the center of it. We have now something 
over 800 Greeks engaged in this diving Inisiness. 

Mr. W1L.S0X. Eight hundred diver.s? 

Mr. CiiEYNKV. No. In order to make a i()m])lete crew for one 
diving outfit they recjuire two divers and about twelve assistants, 
])ump men. boat men, etc. It has been .stated that there are about 70 
diving outfits altogether, which would mean, perhaps. 140 divers. 
We have 800 people in the business at Tarpon Springs, but we have 
not got 70 of these diving outfits at that place. We have, perhaps, 
about 40 at that point. 

These men are all foreigners. Some few of them may be natural- 
ized citizens, but very few of them speak the English language. In 
fact. I do iu)t suppose that one out of a hundred can understand an 
English word. They ai'e in no sense interested with us as citizens. 
They own no property excejjt their diving outfits; and those of us who 
have onr investments in property and other matters there think that 
onr entire industry is threatened by this enormous influx of alien 
j)opidation who have no interest in sustaining the industry perma- 
nently. In other words, they are irresponsible, because just as soon 
as they have derived what tein]5orary benefit they can from it they 
will leave us, and we will be left without an industry. 

From my knowledge of the bnsiness, I feel that I want to indorse, 
to the fullest extent. Doctor Smith's statement here. As nearly as 
we can jndge of the extent of these sjionge grounds, they will be 
exhausted for all j)ractical purposes in the next two or three years, 
if this condition contiinies. There are at Key West and other points 
along the coast from 1.000 to 2,000 men who have pursued this calling 
for their lifetime, and their fathers pnreued it before them. They 
have their own homes and vessels. It is their occupation and sole 
(lc])endence, and at the present time they are driven out. They can 
not c()m])ete with the diving methods. That would, of course, appear 
to be an argmnent for the total prohil)ition of the diving lousiness. 
But many of ns feel that wotdd be wrong, because we woidd debar the 
markets of the country from obtaining the results of these deep- 
water beds on which the hookers can not work. 



28 PROTECTION OP THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

It has been suggested here that perhaps the purpose was to curtail 
the production, whereby the consumer would have to pay the penalty 
by having the cost to him increased ; but we can certainly establish 
the fact that the normal quantity of the product for several years 
past, which has averaged in the neighborhood of $400,000 a year, will 
be sustained, and in addition to that an equal quantity will be pro- 
duced by the diving method during the seven months of the open 
season. The proof of that lies in the fact that from January 1 until 
the present time there have been over $200,000 worth of sponges 
produced by the divers sold at Tarpon Springs. That is a period of 
a little over three months. 

Mr. Wilson. Practically all of that amount has gone to the Greeks? 

Mr. Cheyney. It has all gone to the Greeks. 

Mr. Wilson. Are you interested, as owner, in diving boats? 

Mr. Cheyney. I have a half interest in one boat and an undefined 
interest in another boat, from having loaned some money on it. 

The Chairman. Do you employ Greeks to do the diving? 

Mr. Cheyney. On that boat I did until a few weeks ago, when the 
boat was laid up. It had c«ased to be profitable. 

Mr. Wilson. Do you know what these Greeks make out of this 
line of business? Are they hired by a few individuals, or are they 
all in it together? 

Mr. Cheyney. At the beginning of the business last year and dur- 
ing last summer, when \'ery few boats put out with Greek crews, most 
of the boats were owned by their own j^eople. and they employed Greek 
crews on wages. At that time the price of sponges was the highest 
ever reached in the markets of this country. As as illustration : The 
basis of value to the fisherman is by the bunch. They are strung on 
a 5-foot yarn string, and a string full of sponges constitutes a bunch. 
The value is estimated by the bunch, and the buyer estimates the 
number of pounds he can get out of a l)unch and at so much a pound. 
These bunches were sold at one time on the basis of a high market 
and a decreased product at $10 per bunch. That was the highest 
price. Those same bunches are now sold for $3. 

To go back and answer the question you asked. The Greeks were 
pmploved at that time on wages, and the divers received as high as 
$300 a month each. 

Mr. Wilson. They did not work by the piece or by the day ? 

Mr. Cheyney. No ; they were paid by the month, a definite salary. 
But that was not maintained so very long. That was really the 
cause of the tremendous excitement among these Greeks and the 
rushing into the business. That money was sent home and to New 
York to their friends, l>ecause it was vastly more money than they 
had ever made before in their lives. Then the business came with a 
rush. Some of them with sufficient capital built their own boats. 
Others engaged in mercantile business in oi-der to supply them; and 
the market under this increased product gradually fell to $S, $7, $6, 
S.-t, $4, and to $3 a buncli. Then it ceased to be profitable at these 
high wages, and they adopted what is known as the siiaring system, 
under which one-half of the value of the product is divided between 
tlie crew in certain shares, the divers getting three or four shares 
against an ordinary pump man and laborer one share, and the other 
one-half of the product went to the owner of the outfit, or oj^erator, 



PROTECTION OF THK SPON(iK TNDrsTKV. 29 

as \\f call liiiii. <iul of which he has to pay (he expense of (Ire ship, 
for the provisions, etc. 

That share has gradually fallen until, based on the $:') \a I nation, 
it produces to theso men not nnich over $;S.") a month. The last 
estimate I made with my men, who were out for six weeks, they 
shared about $30 a month each a piece, wdiich was not fair wages. 
Therefore the business has ceased to be as productive as it was at 
first. In that way we contend the question is partially solved, under 
the law of supply and demand: but we do not know how far they 
can extend this reduction in jjrice or whether the price will remain 
at that ])oint, antl in the meantime the destruction of the grounds 
continues. That is the thing which alai-ms us. We feel that we are 
absolutely tied to the ])ermanency of this industry, and that our 
interests are in maintaining and jireserving that industry. We feel 
that we are being rapidly threatened with destruction, nnless some 
such legislation as this is enacted. We — and I think I can speak for 
some of my friends — are anxious, of course, to see a certain period in 
the year left o])en for the operation of the divers, but I would rather 
see the entire method destroyed than to see it left open during the 
entire year. 

The CiiAiKMAX. What would these divers do during the other five 
months ? 

Mr. CiiEYNEY. I can not say, but I believe that many of them will 
go back to the cities from which they came. Many of these fisher- 
men are from our own cities, and many of them, I think, are directly 
from abroad. !Many of them have congregated there from New York, 
Savannah, and other ])laces, and I presume they would go back to 
those cities to wait until the closed season was over. 

The Chairman. Could they not use hooks during the other five 
months ? 

Mr. Cheyxey. They have never had any experience in that method 
of sponging; but I see no reason why they shoidd not do it, although 
it takes a certain amount of training to follow it. 

Mr. BiRDSALi,. If the Americans should engage in this business and 
the Greeks should droj) out of it, this bill would not affect anything 
at all, would it? 

Mr. Cheyxey. The passage of this bill would still close the season 
to Americans just the same as it would to aliens. It prohibits the 
use of that method of gathering sponges by anyone. There are two 
bills before this committee. One is the alien bill, and the other is a 
l)ill relating entirely to the diving operations. I have been discussing 
bill 480(i, which prohibits diving. 

ilr. BiRDSALL. What do you apprehend would be the effect, if the 
Greeks w-ere driven out of business, as to whether their place would 
be supplied by Americans? 

Mr. Cheyney. I think the Americans would eventually learn to 
become divers themselves. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. This would really mean, so far as the legislation 
itself is concerned, that the crude method of gathering sponges 
would be supplanted by this more rapid and better method of gath- 
ering them ? 

Mr. Cheyney. Exactly; and there is another point there. The 
other method brings into use so much greater facilities tliat sponges 



30 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

can be gathered very much more rapidly than they can by hooking, 
and their operations would not be prevented by the condition of the 
water, which has been mentioned by Doctor Smith. Natural con- 
ditions have always stood between the old method and constant work 
of gathering. 

Mr. BiKDs.ALL. That does not rest so much upon the disposition of 
the gatherer to save the crop as upon the crudeness of the method? 

Mr. Cheyney. I think the gatherer is human, and will get all 
he can get, unless his hands are tied to a certain extent. I think 
that is true. I think it would be natural for him to get everything 
that he can, even if it brings a very low price. 

The Ch.\irjian. If this bill is passed, would not the divers go 
outside of the 3-mile limit and continue fishing the year around 
and then take their catch elsewhere or keep them on the boats? 

Mr. Cheyney. I can not believe that would be a possible thing to 
do. There are two and perhaps three very serious obstacles. In 
the first place, while sponges might be cleaned on the boat, yet it 
would be a very difficult matter. They might have wells in the 
boats, if the boats were large enough to accommodate them, in 
which the sponges could be immersed. But the main difficulty would 
be the length of time required to carry these sponges to a foreign 
jjort. I have discussed that subject with a number of very intelli- 
gent masters down there, and they all claim that it would take from 
three to four weeks to make the nearest foreign port, which would be 
Hab'ana, and to make the return trip. Therefore they could not 
remain out after gathering their cargo more than a month, or if 
they did it would l)e very dangerous, as the sponges would probably 
spoil on their hands. There is a tendency to heat, which forms a 
kind of gurry and destroys the sponge. Therefore they would have 
a month's work and a month's idleness. 

But, to my mind, the most important point of all would be that 
the moment they were introduced into the markets of Cuba the 
Cuban fishermen would demand of their Government a protective 
measure, similar to this, in order to save themselves. 

Senator Taliaferro. Is diving allowed in Cuban waters? 

Mr. Cheyney. I presimie they have never had any legislation on 
that subject, because there has never been any diving carried on 
there to my knowledge. But these goods being so much more valu- 
able than the Cuban product, if taken into their market and sold in 
competition with their goods, would cause an immediate action on 
the part of the fishermen to request their Government to protect 
them. I take it the Government woTild pass similar legislation to 
this, which would shut them out of Cuba. 

The Chairman. Such action has already been taken in the Ba- 
hamas, has it not? 

Mr. Cheyney. I understand it has. Another difficulty would be 
that it would take a very much larger vessel than those now used, 
and it would require vessels on such a large scale that it would not be 
profitable. 

The Chairman. Mr. Seraphic stated that a great deal of curing 
was now being done on the vessels. 

Mr. Cheyney. I never knew of such a thing. 

Mr. Wilson. If this bill does become a law, how can we stop these 
same j^eople from going out and fishing and making the claim that 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 31 

tlu'V linvc lioukcil ilu'x" ^jxnifii's ^ Wdnld \()U li;i\c aiiv iriPiiliK- in 
tha"t liiic^ 

Mr. C'liKVNKV. No: I lliink not: Itccaux'. wliilc ihcii' i- a lari;*' area 
of water to ln' coni'IhhI. yet tlit'iH' arc boats constantly i'oniin<i' and <£o- 
ing, and the Hoots almost always work tojjctlu'i-. so that a \i'ssol woidd 
be picked up at almost any time: and it would be possible to see whether 
they were usiii": the divinp; method or not. You can see a irreat dis- 
tance. 10 or 15 miles, over that water, and tiiey would be in constant 
danger of boinir discovered at any time. In addition to that, the 
revenue cutters patrol those wateis pretty thorouiihly. 

Mr. Wii.sox. I)() they now? 

Mr. Cheyney. They do now in connection with a trallic that has 
always been maintained on that coast to some extent, which is the 
sinuiTfrlinir of Cuban rum. That is now almost broken up. i)Ut the 
revenue I'litters still patrol the coast. 

Mr. SriciiT. I understood you to say a while ayo that nearly all 
these men engaged in the dixing business are foreigners. liid I 
understand yon correctly i 

Mr. Cheyney. Yes. sir. 

Mr. SpiOHT. How is it with the men who are engaged in hooking — 
what i)ercentage of them are foreigners? 

Mr. CiiEVNEv. The men engaged in hooking are all residents of 
this country and have been for many years; but just what percentage 
of them have taken out naturalization papers I do not know. Orig- 
inally they and their forefathers are from the Bahama Islands, and 
we call them Conchs. because they use the conch, which is a shellfish, 
as an article of diet. Those men were English subjects, perhaps, 
prior to coming to this country, but I think most of them have become 
naturalized. There may be a few of them who have not. 

Mr. Si'iGHT. I believe you live at Tarpon Springs? 

Mr. Cheyney. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Spight. I saw a statement published in a paper in your town 
that about (>0 pev cent of them are aliens. 

Mr. Cheyney. I think that is simply an assumption. Whether 
they are aliens or not. they are citizens to all intents and purposes. 
They all own their own homes and have a permanent residence either 
at Key AVest or at some point along the coast. 

Mr. Spight. Did I understand you correctly as saying that you 
are a dealer in sponges? 

Mr. Cheyney. I buy and sell sponges. 

Mr. Spight. Do you buy them yourself, or are you the agent for 
somebody ? 

Mr. Chey'ney. I buy independently, and I market my own sponges. 

Mr. Spight. The statement has been made that the dealers and 
buyers of sponges have now on hand a considerable stock, which they 
bought at high prices, which they can not now dispose of without a 
heavy loss, and that they are advocating this legislation with a view 
and hope that the output may be curtailed to such an extent as to in- 
crease the value of the sponges which they now hold. Is that true? 

Mr. Cheyney. I have heard that statement made. I have no abso- 
lute knowledge, and can form but very little guess as to what my coiu- 
petitors have in stock at the present time or as to whether they have 
sold their goods or not. I can only answer for myself, that up to 
one month ago I did not have a thousand dollars' worth of goods in 



32 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

stock. At the 23>i"esent time I have bought, since that time, perhaps 
four or five or six thousand dollars' worth. I have been afraid to 
buy because of the constantly falling market, and my customers are 
afraid to buy from me because of the con.stantly falling market. 

Mr. Wilson. How long can you kecjD a stock of sijongcs!' 

Mr. Cheynev. If they are properly dried and packed they can be 
ke^Jt for ten years. If they are kept in a dry place they undergo 
practically no change whatever. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. I understand that at the outset you were o2Dposed to 
this proposition. Am I correct about that? 

Mr. Cheyney. My first action in this matter was taken in opposi- 
tion to the bill introduced by Senator Taliaferro on behalf of Key 
AVest and the hookers. 

Mr. BiRDS.\LL. I understood that, and I thought I would give you 
an opportunity to put yourself right on the record, because j'our name 
appears here as a protestant. 

Sir. Cheyney. I welcome the opportunity to explain that. I did 
use every possible effort to crystallize sentiment in my locality and 
among those who are associated and interested in this industry in 
oi^position to the passage of the bill, because we believed, as I stated 
a while ago, that if we entirely destroyed the diving method we would 
be taking a step backward. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. That was the scope of the first bill ? 

Mr. Cheyney. Yes; it was an absolute prohibition. Afterwards 
I favored a closed season — that is. a measure to permit the diving 
method during practically half of the year and closing it for, say, five 
months — believing that would work to the best advantage of all con- 
cerned, except the Creeks, who could not maintain themselves during 
the closed season. I take it that is the only element that will be 
affected or injured by this action. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. I understand that the period covered by the closed 
season in this bill is the only period of the year in which what you 
call the " Key Westers " can hook sponges ? 

Mr. Cheyney. That is true. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. Why is that ? 

Mr. Cheyney. It is because of the condition of the weather and 
the water. Our calms set in about the 1st of May or the latter part 
of April, and we have practically windless weather for two or three 
months until the squalls of midsummer appear. During that period 
the water becomes clear, which is an absolute essential to prosecuting 
their work. They come out on the grounds about the middle of 
April or toward the 1st of May and pursue their hooking methods 
until October or November, making two or three trips and usually 
trips of two months' duration. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. Tlien the effect of these bills would be to make that 
a closed season for divers and to give the hookers the benefit of the 
market during those months? 

Mr. Cheyney. Exactly. It seemed to me and to others who have 
studied the bill that the effect would be just as you have stated it — 
that is, it would preserve the equilibrium in the market and furnish 
an opportunity to both of these classes and both of these methods to 
pursue their calling without interfering with each other, and at the 
same time it would create a condition bv which the market could be 



PKOTECTION OF THE SPONGK INnX'STHY. 38 

siipplii'il at a seltk'd price. Ilcivtoforc tlicrc lias always hciMi an 
exci'ss of proiliict in the siiiuiner time and nn product at all in the 
winter, and consetinently there is a chea]) market in the summer and 
no market in the winter. Such a condition would Ih' relieved in' tiie 
present arrangement. 

Mr. Biuns.M.i,. Do yon think it would he [lossihle to make any 
closed season for the hookers? 

Mr. CiiKYNKY. I do not; because they are alreaily closed by nature 
for half of the year, and it woukl be impossible for you to close any 
portion of their season and still permit them to make a living. At 
best they do not make very much of a living. 

Mr. Wilson. I understand it has been stated here that you were 
employed to circnhtte this petition by various parties and jjaid for 
your services, and that after you had done so and gotten the money 
out of it you turned tail, if that is not right I would be glad to 
have you explain it. 

Mr. CiiEYNEY. I would like to have an opportunity to answer that. 
I have heard that such a statement has been made. The facts are 
sim|>ly these, tliat upon the presentation of the bill introduced by 
Senator Taliaferro before the committee in the Senate I was asked 
by several of my friends, who were also interested in this industry, 
to take some measure to aid them in formulating a protest. I have 
a very good knowledge of such matters and I told them I would do 
what I could, but that it would be necessary to undergo some expense 
in the matter because I would want to consult an attorney and it 
might be necessary to do some newspaper work and to circulate a 
petition, all of which would entail some expense. They stated they 
would provide for that by levying a small tax on each diving boat, 
and I think the tax was $10 for each boat. That was to defray these 
expen.ses. I expended exactly $375, $275 of which was paid to iny 
i!ttorne\'. for which I ^jresented his receipt to the committee. Fifty 
dollars was paid for an article which we had written in the paper, 
in order to explain to our people what we wanted in this petition. 

Mr. AVii..st)X. What paper was that? 

Mr. CiiEYNEY. That was the Tampa Times. It was an article pre- 
pared and written by a gentleman named Calhoun, who was con- 
nected with the board of trade in Tampa. 

Mr. Si'iGiiT. Look at this paper and see if it is the jjetition you 
)irocured the signatures to. 

Mr. CiiEYNKY. Yes; I think it is. I thiidi it was the only jietition 
that was circulated, and I think it nuist be the same. I expended 
$50 or $75 to five or six men who hired carriages to drive around the 
country and circulate these petitions. I then presented my iteiuized 
bill, with the receipts for the amounts paid. I am still out $175, but 
I do not regret that at all and do not care anything about it. At the 
jire.sent time I am bearing my own exjjenses. 

Senator Taliaferko. Mr. Cheyney. were you under the impi-ession, 
when you approved the bill in its amended form, that you were rep- 
resenting the interests and wishes of the gentlemen who had been 
o()posed. with you, to the original bill? 

Mr. CiiEYNEY. Yes; entirely so. It became api)arent to us that it 
was necessary to compromise with the element that was suggesting 
the first bill, bv some restriction ow the diving method, but still leav- 



34 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

ing a certain privilege open to the divers. Tliere was a meeting in 
my office ot" those whom I felt were most. interested in the matter and 
who represented the largest interest* in the investment of property 
there. 

Senator Taliaferro. Was Mr. Seraphic there ^ 

Mr. Cheyney. Mr. Seraphic was there at that meeting, and Mr. 
Mere's, and Mr. Decker, and others. We talked the matter over, and 
Mr. Seraphic suggested that we favor a closed season for part of the 
year. We then discussed the number of months that woukl be fair 
for the closed season, and what months, and we finally decided upon 
the period embraced in this bill, between May 1 and October 1.. 
I then went to Tampa with Mr. Seraphic and Mr. Meres. I am not 
certain whether Mr. Decker was there or not at that time. I sug- 
gested to certain gentlemen there in Tampa, who were in correspond- 
ence with Washington on this subject, that we should talk the matter 
over, and then and there the idea was formed in keeping with the 
understanding of that meeting. I do not know whether I have made 
myself clear in reply to your question. ^ 

Mr. Wilson. In what months of the year can they dive? 

Mr. Cheyney. They can dive throughout the entire year. 

Mr. Wilson. Is the water warm? 

Mr. Cheyney. The water gets pietty cold in the winter time. 

Mr. Wilson. Does it get sutlieicntly cold to prevent diving? 

Mr. Cheyney. No. When a man is inclosed in one of these rubber 
suits he would not feel it as much as if he were exposed to the water — 
although I have never tried it. 

Mr. Spight. In order to identify the petition I asked you about a 
while ago, I call your attention to the issue of the Tarpon Springs 
News of March 24 of this year. That is the petition you say you 
assisted in circulating? 

Mr. Cheyney. Yes, sir ; I think so. 

Mr. Wilson. About when did they circulate that petition? 

Mr. Cheyney. I could not say ; but it seems to me it was probably 
about a month ago or a little over a month ago. I think it was one or 
two weeks prior to the publication of that issue of the paper. 

Mr. AViLSON. Are most of the people who signed that petition still 
opposed to these bills in their present form ? 

Mr. Cheyney. I have discussed the matter with a great many of 
the signers of that petition, with men I have met in that locality and 
in Tamija, and I can say positively that I have not met more than 
three or four men, among perhaps fifty or possibly a hundred with 
whom I have discussed the matter, who have stated any objection to 
the passage of the bill. 

The Chairman. Is their objection removed by the amendment? 

Mr. Cheyney. Their objection was removed by the amendment. 

Mr. Wilson. How long have you known Mr. Seraphic? 

Mr. Cheyney. I have known Mr. Seraphic since last May or June, 
when he first came to our place. Since that time I think he has been 
in our place perhaps four or five times during the year. 

Mr. Wilson. How long has the society which he represents been in 
existence, to your knowledge, as an organization? 

Mr. Cheyney. I understood in a general ^way that the society was 
organized by Mr. Seraphic being made president a month or so ago. 

Mr. Wilson. It is a recent organization? 



PROTECTION OK THK SPONGE INDTSTRV. J5 

Mr. CriEVNEv. I think so. altlioiijiii llicv may liavo had some form 
of orfxaiiizatioii ])ri()r to that. I really do not come in contact with 
tlit'so people very mnch, because I am not known to them nor are they 
known to me. Tiiey <h' not speak onr laii<j;iia<;e to any <>:reat extent. 

Mr. 8i'i(iHT. I see it is stated in an editA)rial in this issue of the 
Tarpon Sprinj^ News that the petition was signed by more than 700 
peoi)le. 

Mr. C'liKVMn. I jiid<ie that there were between si.\ and .seven hun- 
dred si<rners. but 1 would not be sure of tiiat. 

Mr. SrioHT. I will read from this editorial and ask your views in 
regard to it : 

Tlip petition, witliin twenty-four hours of eireulutiou, received tlio signatures 
of more tlian 700 citizens of tliis coast, embracing city anil town officials, 
boards of trade, merchants, business men, and influential citizens of every call- 
ing. The protest will be read with interest and meet with general a|)proval. 

Mr. CiiEyxEV. That is true. 

Mr. Spight. Did you imdei'stand and did the signers of that peti- 
tion understand that all the statements made in that petition at that 
time were true^ 

Mr. C'liEYNEV. The petition and the protest that is referred to was 
circidaied. and while I did not cireuhite these petitions I instructed 
each of the people who did circulate them to be sure to explain and 
read the protest to these people, so that they woidd have a full under- 
standing of it. 

Mr. SiuoHT. You believed that the statements made in that peti- 
tion at the time were true? 

Mr. CuKVNEY. The statements made in the i)rotest ? 

Mr. Si'KiUT. Yes. 

Mr. Cheyxey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Si'iGHT. I find here a protest followed by a petition, contain- 
ing six paragraphs, stating the reasons why they are opposed to the 
pa.s.sage of the bill 4S06. You understood, at the time, that the state- 
ments made in the petition were true? 

Mr. Cheyxey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pattersox. Was the protest made to the present bill, No. 4806, 
or was it to the original bill, which prohibited 

Mr. CiiEY'XEY. It was to the original bill, and did not apply to the 
present bill. 

STATEMENT OF MR. SAMUEL E. HOPE, TARPON SPRINGS, FLA. 

Mr. Hope. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am neither a sponge 
bujer nor a sponge dealer; but I have lived within a couple of miles 
of this sponge business for thirty-odd years, and I am sent here to 
represent my neighbors, who have gone into the business since the 
Greeks have come there. They are in the sjjonge business and have 
these Greeks emplo3'ed on their boats, and have put their money into 
the business. 

Mi-. Wilson, ^^^lat is your business? 

Mr. Hope. I am an orange grower. 

!Mr. Wilson. You are not a professional man ? 

Mr. Hope. No, sir ; I am not a professional man. 

Ml". Spight. Have you any interest in this sponge business in any 
way? 



36 • PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Mr. Hope. None whatever. I am here only representing the inter- 
ests of the town where I live. We object to this bill and to the 
closed-season clause. We do not object to the alien part of it, and 
we do not object to the ."iO-foot-water clause. We are willing to go 
outside of that limit and let the hookers sponge in deep water; but 
we do not want to hold these men up for five months in the year. 
They have jiut their money into this business. One man told me 
he had put $1-4,000 into it and had not made a cent out of it yet, and 
he didn't like to be cut oil' until he got some of his money back. He 
could not see any reason why they should let one side sponge and 
keejD tlie others from doing it. Under this bill they let the hookers 
sponge all during the year. 

Mr. Wilson. Is it not true that the hookers are [n-ohibited from 
sponging by tlie weather conditions, in certain seasons? 

Mr. Hope. Yes: but they do it all the year, whenever they can get 
a chance. They are out nearly all the year. I have lived right there 
by them for thirty years. Of course there is one season when the 
■water is clear and then they will get more sponges than at other 
times, when they make failures. Hooking has not been a success. 
There is no question about that. This diving apparatus has seemed 
to be a success, although it has lowered the price of the sponges. 
These men do not propose to have the buyers regulate the price ; but 
they are willing to make the catch and let the law of supply and de- 
mand regulate and decide the price. When it gets so that they can't 
do any more business then they will drop out; but they do not propose 
to be cut out without having a chance. They are willing to let the 
quantity of the sponge product regulate the market. 

Mr. Wilson. What do you think about the preservation of the 
business down there!' Do you think we ought to take that into con- 
sideration ? 

Mr. Hope. The pi'eservation of the sponge beds? 

Mr. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Hope. I think that would be a jjrettv hard job. 

Mr. Wilson. Wliy? 

Mr. Hope. They have been sjionging there for forty years on 
these beds. These hookers can not go into over 50 feet of water, and 
they have been there, to my knowledge, forty years, and yet they get 
a good deal of sponge. 

Mr. Wilson. Do you not think this diving has something to do 
with the destruction of the sponges? 

Mr. Hope. I don't think it has anything at all to do with it. I don't 
think a man weighs 10 pounds when he goes down there in the water. 

Mr. Wilson. Do not his shoes weigh 40 or 50 pounds? 

Mr. Hope. I don't have any idea about that; but these sponges 
won't gi'ow except on rocky ground. 

Mr. Wilson. Is it not true that his shoes weigh 40 or 50 pounds? 

Mr. Hope. They don't weigh 5 pounds or 3 pounds when he gets 
down there under the water. It is just enough to keep him down. 

Mr. Spight. And that is the reason they are made heavy? 

Mr. Hope. The reason they are made heavy is to keep him down to 
the bottom, and when they get down to the bottom they are as light 
as we are on top. I don't think it interferes with the sponges at all. 

Mr. Wilson. You think that walking on the beds does not interfere 
with them at all? 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 37 

Mr. Hope. I don't think so. 

Mr. Wilson. And it has nothing to do with the destruction of tlie 
sponges ? 

Mr. Hope. Nothing whatever. 

The Chairman. They chiini that a man diving there scrapes iij) all 
the sponges, small and large both, so that it destroys the bed. 

.Mr. Hoi'F.. Well, he can see thei'e as well as he can al)o\-e water. 
They do take iij) the small sponges. There is no doiil)l ai)oiit that. 
There is a Stale law against it. bat it is ne\er ent'oii-ed and never has 
been enforced. 

Mr. I'ATTEiisoN. You think the enforcement of the State law would 
practically remedy the matter^ 

Ml-. iloiT.. There has bi'en no oiu' to lake charge of the iiiisiner..^. 
If they had a man paid for that s(>rvice, it would im])rove matters. 
The sheritf is the man to look aftei- it: but he gets no particular pay 
for it and don't look after it. 

Mr. HiitDSAi.T.. Are the hookei-s taking out as many s])onges as they 
used to^ 

.Mr. Iloi'K. Xo. sir: I don't think they are. 

Mr. HiHUSAi.i.. You think the (|uanlity is decreasing^ 

Mr. Hope. "\'es, sir; the quantity is ilccreasing. 

Mr. BnsnsAi.i.. Are there as many engaged in the business? 

My. Hope. I lliiidc there was last year: but I don't know what 
they are going to do this year. 

Mr. l?iia)SAT.i.. What nationality are these peo])lc generally? 

Mr. lion:. They are Hahaman<. 

Mr. HiitnsAi.i.. AMiat Mr. C'heyney calls •■conchs?" 

Ml'. Hope. They are Bahaman niggers ;ind white eonchs: ihree- 
foiirlhs of them are Bahaman niggers. 

Mr. BiKOSALL. Are they citizens? 

Mr. Hope. I think very few of them are (■itizeii>. 

Mr. BiRDSAi.i,. Very few of them are naturalized ? 

Mr. Hope, ^'es; and one reason is that they can neither ri-ad nor 
write. 

Mr. BiRDSAi.i.. Do they come and go or are they there perma- 
nently ? 

Mr. Hope. I don't know. I rent a good many of them houses, and 
they last for three or four years. 

.Mr. WiL.soN. .Vre they Hepublicaus or Democrats? 

Mr. Hope. They can't vote. 

Mr. BiRDSALL. Is it a shifting population — that is, do they come 
and go or do they remain there? 

Mr. Hope. They come and go. Most of them stay in Key West. 
Key West has been their home. There are a good nnuiy of them in 
Tarjion .Springs. 

Mr. AViLso.N. Do they own their own homes? 

Mr. Hope. They don't own many homes. 

Mr. ^^'lL.so^'. Do they save their money ? 

Ml-. Hope. No, sir; they don't save their money. 

Mr. Wilson. Are they a peaceable class of people? 

Mr. Hope. Rather; but they like to drink. 

Mr. Spight. With reference to being law-abiding, how do ihey 
compare with the Greeks who are there? 



38 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDItSTEY. 

Mr. Hope. I set" no objection to the Greeks. I have not seen a 
drunken one since they have been at Tarpon Springs, and I live there- 
Mr. Spight. I have a statement liere that these hooking fishermen 
are a dissipated class, get drmik, and cause a good deal of trouble; 
and tliat. on the other hand, the Greeks are law-abiding. 

Mr. Hope. I have not heard any complaint at all about the Greeks 
being drunk. I am a member of the council in Tarpon Springs, and 
never have heard of any of them being drunk so as to be put in the 
calaboose. They seem to be very good citizens and go their own way. 

Mr. BiRDS.^M>L. You don't know what proportion of these diving 
outfits are owned by aliens? 

Mr. Hope. I think about 30 per cent of them are owned by native- 
born Americans. 

Mr. BiUDSAi.L. And they employ (xreek fishermen? 

Mr. Hope. They employ Greeks for their laborers. 

Mr. Patterson. Do they employ American laborers and Greek 
divers? 

Mr. Hope. They have to have one American- to be the captain or 
master of the vessel, and the others, of course, are Greeks, except 
probably the cook. 

Mr. Patterson. You say they have to have an American to be the 
captain of the vessel ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes; he has to be a naturalized citizen before he can be 
captain of a vessel. 

Mr. Spight. You stated that about 30^ per cent of them are owned 
by American citizens. Do you mean native-born citizens? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Spight. What part of the other 70 per cent are owned by natu- 
ralized citizens? 

Mr. Hope. I think about half of them. 

Mr. Spight. So there Avould be some GO or (',5 \wr cent of the boats 
engaged in diving belonging to American citizens, either native or 
naturalized ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes. sir : that is right. 

Mr. Wilson. Did you sign this petition? 

Mr. Hope. I think I did that fii-st one. 

Mr. Wilson. You are still of tlie opinion that this is not wise legis- 
lation ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir; I am. 

Mr. W1L.SOX. AVhat is the opinion of the majority of people you 
have talked with about it ? 

Mr. Hope. I took pains to go around and see most of the people 
who signed that petition before I left home, and I could not meet up 
with but two men who had changed their minds upon that petition. 

Mr. Wilson. Wlio were they? 

Mr. Hope. Mr. Meres and Mr. Decker. 

Mr. WiL.soN. Wliy did they change their minds, if you know ? 

Mr. Hope. I don't know and I can't tell you. They are sponge 
buyers. Our opinion about that is that these sponge buyers want to 
get rid of those $10 sponges. They want to unload at the expense of 
somebody else. 

Mr. Spight. I have a statement here that the people were practi- 
cally unanimous in opposition to this character of legislation until 
the northern buvers intervened. 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 39 

Mr. TTorK. Ye?, sir. 

iMr. .Sficnr. .Viid then whatever change came over them occurred? 

Mr. Hope. Tliat is the case exactly. 

Mr. Wii.soN. Did you see all the people who signed that petition? 

Mr. IIt)rE. No; but I saw the principal merchants in Tarpon 
Springs. 

Mr. A\'iLSON. How many of them did you see ? 

Mr. Hope. I suppose I saw probably SO of them. I went around 
to the leading persons in Tarpon Springs before I left there to see 
what tiieir view was on this subject. It not only affects the sponge 
business, but it affects our town. 

Mr. Wilson. In what way? 

Mr. Hope. Everything has gone up there. Rents have gone up. 

Mr. Wilson. You are a renter^ 

Mr. Hope. "\'es, sii\ 

Mr. AViLSON. You do not object to that ? 

Mr. Hope. I don't object to it. Rent has gone up. They have 
established stoi'es there. They have got their own restaurants, and 
they run them themselves. Houses that did bring $1.5 a nionlli now 
bring $7.") and $100 a month rent. None of them are paupers. I have 
not seen any of them but what had plenty of money. 

Mr. Wilson. The difficulty, in my mind, is as to what will become 
of this industry. 

Mr. Hope. In the closed season? 

Mr. Wilson. No: but if these divers are allowed to keep on, will 
it not comjjleteiy destroy the industry in future years? 

Mr. Hope. That is only imaginary with the people. We don't 
Imow what is there. They didn't know, until these Greek divers came, 
that there was any sponges there in the deep water. They have 
opened u]5 a new field, which is just now in its infancy. I think there 
are i)lenty of sponges there. I think it runs for 250 miles up and 
down that coast. 

Mr. Spioht. I want to call your attention to a paragraph in the 
petition I have been talking about and get your judgment as to its 
correctness. 

In the opinion of the uiulersifiiieil the passage of Senate hill Xo. 48(Hi would 
result either in the loss to the markets of the world of all the sponges in water 
deeper that 4.S feet, for the reason that the old method of hooking sponges eau not 
he suiH-essfvdly carried <ni in deeper water than 48 feet, or in driving the sponge 
husiness out of the United States, as, if the bill should be passed, and tlie 
courts should sustain the same as a jiroper jioliee regulation, the grounds upnn 
which the diving is done lieing ujion the high seas and be.vond the ,i'urisdiction 
of the United States, the result would be that the sjionges would be still taken 
from these waters by diving, and the onl.v result wotUd be that the ve.ssels 
therein engaged would land their cargoes either upon the island of Cuba, the 
Bahama Islands, or some other foreign countr.v. The mere matter of distance 
from the sponging banks to the foreign port would make ver.v little difference 
in the business, it being a fact that the fishing smacks of both Cuba and the 
Bahamas catch most of their tish on the Florida coast and transi)iirt them to 
their home ports. 

Mr. Hope. That is correct. I have seen 25 fishing smacks out there 
at once. 

Mr. Spioirr. That state of facts, if it is true, wotdd a])ply to the 
present bill as well as the bill before it was amended ? 

Mr. Hope. I reckon it would. I have not looked at the bill. I 
suppose the United States can not prohibit them from going outside 



40 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

the limit and tatchin<; sponges. I suppose you coukl make a law 
prohibiting them from bringing them into the United States. But 
you take St. Martins; that point runs otT 20 miles into the Gulf, 
where the water is not more than 5 feet deep. These men can build 
houses out there in that 5 feet of water and can carry their sponges 
there, and it is entirely outside of the limits of the United States. 
They will catch them outside of the limits of the United States. 
They are fixed to do it, and the men have got their money it it, and 
they must get it out in some Avay. 

IVIr. Smith. A^Hiere will they sell them? 

Mr. Hope. They can keep them and ship them to Europe or to 
Cuba and the Bahamas. 

Mr. Spight. If they were compelled to take them to a foreign port, 
and then ship them to the United States, the duty would make them 
come higher. 

Mr. Hope. Yes. 

Mr. Wilson. Do you know whether or not there is a law in the 
Bahama Islands prohibiting this traffic in sponges? 

Mr. Hope. I have heard it stated that there was a law prohibiting 
anyl)ody but Bahamans from fishing for sponges there — that is, within 
their limit. 

Mr. WiLStix. Is there not quite a supply of sponges now down in 
your town ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir; I think there is a pretty good supply there 
now. They have gone down from $10 to $3.50. 

Mr. Wilson. And they are still working at it in just the same 
way ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir; in the same wa_y. We propose to have a 
bonded warehouse there. Some of these men have means and they 
were after me for a lot to put up a bonded warehouse on. They are 
men who have plenty of means to do it, and they are advancing the 
money and will hold the sponges until they come up to a proper 
price and then sell. 

Mr. Spight. Do you know whether the buyers have on hand a 
considerable stock l)ought at low prices? 

Mr. Hope. That is what everyone says. I don't know what they 
have done in that respect. I could not state it from personal knowl- 
edge. 

Mr. Wilson. Is Mr. Meres in town ? 

Mr. Hope. No, sir; I don't think so. 

Mr. Wilson. You say he is a sponge buyer? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir; he is a sponge buyer and so are Mr. Decker 
and Mr. Cheynej'. None of those gentlemen are here you say? 

Mr. Wilson. Mr. Cheyney is here. 

Mr. Spight. Mr. Decker is not. 

Mr. Hope. No, sir. 

Mr. Wilson. They are the only ones you have found who are very 
much in favor of this measured 

Mr. Hope. They are the only ones I found who are in favor of it. 

Mr. Bernstein. Did you speak to Mr. Decker in regard to this 
matter ? 

Mr. Hope. No, sir. 

Mr. Bernstein. Did you speak to Mr. Louden? 

Mr. Hope. No. sir. 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 41 

Mr. Bernstein. Or to tlie other sponge biiyei's ? 
Mr. Hope. I spoke to Mr. DeeUer. 

Mr. Bernstein. Did voii liiid any sponge buyer who i^ not in 
favor of this bill; and don't yon know as a matter of fact that none 
of the buyers who are interested in buying sponges and who also 
own diving vessels were willing that Mr. Seraphic should come here 
to oppose the bill t 

Mr. Hope. I don't know anythint^ about that. 

Mr. Bernstein. As a matter of tact it was only people who went 
into this industry to make money out of it, and who never before 
had been interested in the sjjonge business in any way who are ob- 
jecting to the i)assage of this bill ? 

Mr. Hope. No. sir. 

Mr. 15ei!n.stein. Is it not a fact that there is no one who i^; i-eally 
interested in the preservation of the industry w'ho objects to its 
passage i 

Mi-. Hope. I don't know that, either: 1 didn't speak to bvit two 
sponge dealers, and they were Mr. Decker and Mr. Meres. 

Mr. Bernstein. You did not endeavor to see any other sponge buy- 
ers? 

Mr. Hope. No, sir; I did not. I understood that Mr. Decker and 
Mr. Meres and Mr. Cheyney were the ones that made the proposition 
to compromise on this thing. We knew nothing about it. 

Mr. Bernstein. You knew that Mr. Louden, who is also a buyer, 
did not support the opposition to the bill ? 

Mr. Hope. I never spoke to Mr. Louden, and I don't know what 
he thinks. 

Mr. Wilson. Do Mr. Decker or Mr. Meres own or control any of 
these fishing boats? 

Mr. Hope. Yes. sir; I think both of them do. 

Mr. Spight. Do you know J. B. Consert '. 

Mr. Hope. Yes. sir; he is one of the men I represent. 

Mr. Wilson. Wiat is his busines.s ? 

Mr. Hope. He is a merchant. 

Mr. Wilson. What kind of a merchant i 

Mr. Hope. A dry -goods merchant. 

Mr. .^PKaiT. Wliat is his character and standing in the community? 

Mr. Hope. As good as that of any man in the community. 

Mr. AVilson. Is he for or against this bill '. 

Mr. Hope. He is against the bill. He has an interest in these div- 
ing boats. He has had money there for several years and never in- 
vested it until this diving business came in, and now he has invested 
his nionev in it. 

Mr. Wilson. Then he owns some of this diving apparatus, does he? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Spight. Is he a native? 

Mr. Hope. I think he is a native of Mississippi : but he has been in 
Florida for a good many years. 

Mi-. Wiuson. He employs Greeks as divers ( 

Mr. IIiiPE. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Sparkm.vn. At what time of the year do they ship most of the 
sponges from Tarpon Springs? 

Mr. Hope. The hookers always get sponges in the spring and ship 
along about July. 



42 PROTECTION or THE SPONGE INDXJSTRT. 

Mr. Sparkman. They ship in the middle of the year? 

Mr. Hope. Yes ; the sjiring of the year is the time when most of the 
hooking business is done — in April. May, and June. 

Mr. Spight. Do you know anything about the price of sponges? 
AVhat is that sponge worth ? 

Mr. Hope. I suppose that sponge is worth now $3 or $4 a bunch. 

Mr. Spight. How many of them would it take to make a bunch ? 

Mr. Hope. About a dozen. 

Mr. Spight. Then they would be worth $3 or $4 a dozen ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Spigiit. Do you know anything about the j^rofit there is in 
selling them and handling them? 

Mr. Hope. No. sir : I never dealt in them. 

Mr. LiNDHEi:\i. Is it not a fact that there was a sale last vSaturday 
and that the sale of sponges advanced? 

Mr. Hope. I never heard of it before I left home. I was at Tampa 
on Saturday. 

Senator Mallory. Mr. Hope, how long has it been since you were 
in Key \A'est ? 

Mr. Hope. I think I was in Key West in 1880. I have not been 
there since. 

Senator Malt.ory. AMiere did you get your information about the 
citizensliip of the men engaged in the sponge business at Key West? 

Mr. Hope. I got it from being there. I know a great many of 
them, you know. I was custom-house officer there for a long time, 
and I know by their taking out their papers. 

Senator Mallory. I understand you to say that a great many of 
them can neither read or write? 

Mr. Hope. Yes; a great many of these negi'oes and a great many 
of these white ones. 

Senator Mallory. You infer that they are Bahaman negroes? 

Mr. Hope. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mallory. Is it not a fact that the Bahaman negroes can 
all read and wi-ite? 

Mr. Hope. No, sir: they do a little better than the white people; 
but I tliiidv very few of them can read or write. 

Senator Mallory. That is ditt'erent from my observation. I have 
never seen a Bahaman negro that could not read and write. 

Mr. Hope. I never saw one that could. 

Senator Mallory. Do you know what proiiortion of the men en- 
gaged in sponging at Key West are residents of Key West? 

Mr. Hope. I thinlv there are a good many of them that are residing 
there at Key West, but I don't know what proportion. 

Senator Mallory. Do you know how many men at Key West are 
engaged in sponging? 

Mr. Hope. They run about 12.') or 130 vessels there, and they have 
from 7 to 12 men to a boat. 

Senator Mallory. That would make over 1.000 men. 

Mr. Hope. Yes; there are over 1,000 men. 

Senator Mallory. That would represent about how many people, 
estimating four to a family ? Somewhere in the neighborhood of four 
or five thousand j)eople. would it not ? 

Mr. Hope. Yes. sir. 



PBOTECTION OF THE SPONGK INDUSTRY. 43 

Senator Mai.i.ohv. Do you know wlial iho sontinioiit in Key West 
is with rcjranl to tills hill? 

Mr. IIoi'E. I only know from the pajjors. Of course ihej- are op- 
posed to diving, becimse it interferes with the hooking business. 

Senator M.\r.Loi{v. There are no divers at Key ^^'est ^ 

Mr. Ilori;. There are no divers at Key West. 

Senator Mai.i.ohv. Thev are all hookers? 

Mr. Iloi-E. All hookers! 

Mr. A\'ii.s(>N. Before the Senators from I'"loriila go T would like to 
hear a woi'd from them on this subject. 

Senator T-VMAiEinto. I hav(> nothing further to say in regard to the 
matter. 

Senator M Aii.oiiv. I merely came licre to look on. I have nothing I 
desire to present to the commiltee. 

Mr. HioiiN.STEix. Mr. Chaii'uian, in regard to our connection with 
the matter. I desire to say I think Doctor Smith will recall that some 
time ago. when a number of divers came into Tarpon Springs, 1 
wrote to him Jor information in regai'd to what might happen to the 
sponge business if diving were continued, and he answered that Iw. had 
sent to me a coi\v of a letter which he had written to the; Vharma- 
ceutical Era. the substance of which he has given here. That inter- 
ested me in the matter, and I wrote him further, and received from 
him a letter dated the 15th of March. 1!)0G. I asked him if he could 
suggest anything which could be done to prevent the depletion of the 
beds, and I received this letter in reply: 

I >i:i'Aiti .\ii;nt ur i'ommerik ami I>Aii()ii, 

BcRKAC (IK T'"isiiiciui;s. 
Wiixhiiialuii. Miiri-h l-'i. HKKS. 
Messrs. I.ASKKK tV Hkk.nstki.n, 

Kit Willidiii xtrtrt. Acic Jo/7,- (■(7.)/. A'. Y. 
Gentlkme.n : TIio P.vnvau is in receipt of .vo\u- letter of tlie lOtli instant, aud 
desires to state in response tliereto tliat it lias no .jurisdiction in tlie matter, and 
in the absence of special authority from (^infrress will not he in ;i piisilion to 
take the initiative. Yon ma.v not Im' aware that the suh.iect of your letters has 
been hroiiKht to tlie attention of CoiiKi'ess hy Senator Talhiferro. who has intro- 
duced two hills, copies of which are inclosed. Those who are interesied in the 
pre.servation of tlie spoiij;e fishery and the e.\clusioii of aliens from parlicijiatiou 
therein should jiress these hills liefi)ie Conirress nnd arranw for a h<>ariiis. 
Hespectfnlly. 

II. .M. Smith .\itiii(i Coiiniii^inioiier. 

We then did absolutely nothing in regard to this matter, and I 
knew that nothing had happened until two weeks ago, when 1 was in 
Tarpon Sju'ings. and I saw a little clipping in the newspaper to the 
efl'cct that certain bills hail passed the Senate. I knew absolutely 
nothing at all of their contents. I believe Doctor .Smith will verify 
the fact that I wrote him from Tarpon Springs at that time and 
asked him to kindly send me copies of the bills which had passed 
the .Senate. From tliat time on we have been interested in the matter, 
and our inteicst. as I have stated, was jirimai-ilv ai'oiised by this letter 
which I have from Doctor .^mitli. That is all I iiave to say in regard 
to this matter. 

1 want to jiut one other thing straight iiid'ore you. and that is with 
reference to the slock on hand. I believe everybody hei'e has ad- 
mitted that the large (|uantity of sjioiiges in former years have come 
in in the early sjjring. so that practically, until the divers went out, 



44 PROTECTIOK OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

M'e received no sponges from Kock Island at all. This last April and 
May we bought a supply of sponges. Then we received no sponges 
until the divers' goods came in, which was a period of about six 
months. In those six months we were naturally able to dispose of 
practically all the stock we had on hand. The goods which the 
divers then l)rought in were large goods, for which there was not a 
very great demand, and which we purchased on a declining market 
and sold at practically that price. That is as far as our financial 
interest in the matter goes. 

JNIr. BiKusAi.L. AVhat is the value of the stock of sponges you have 
on hand now ''. 

Mr. Bernstein. Of Rock Island sponges? 

Mr. BiRDSAEL. S])onges of any kind. 

Mr. Bernsit.in. I should say somewhere in the neighborhood of 
$100,000 worth of stock, which is a comparatively light stock for us. 
At our last inventorv our stock was somewhere in the neighborhood 
of $175,000 to $-200,d00. Since that time the stock has been reduced. 

Mr. Wilson. Why? 

Mr. Bernstein. Because we have had our sales during this six 
months' time, and we have been selling a large quantity of goods 
besides those we have imported. 

Mr. AYiL.soN. Have you not taken advantage of the low market 
jind purchased a stock? 

Mr. Bernstein. We have purchased a stock, but we have prac- 
tically .sold all we have jjurchased. We sold all our stock out at a 
very good margin of profit. 

Mr. W^iL.soN. Is it true that you have purchased all you could? 

Mr. Bernstein. We have been Iniying right along our usual pro- 
l^ortiou of sponges. 

Mr. A^'iLsoN. Have you any idea how much you have thought within 
the last six months ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I could not say definitely, but possibly something 
like $75,000 worth. I can not say that with any degree of certainty, 
but I imagine it is somewhere in that neighborhood. I should im- 
agine we have on hand to-day something like $'20,000 worth of Rock 
Island sponges of all .sizes. Our sponges are graded very carefully, 
running one, two, three, and four to the pouiul. We have on hand 
only about $20,000 worth of this grade of sponge to which I refer. 
If there is any house which would be in a position to take advantage 
of this market it would l)e our house. When I was in Tarpon 
Springs I did buy practically one-half of what was there, and, as I 
explained the last time I was here, so far as the present condition of 
business is concerned, we would be perfectly happy to have diving 
continue, if we did not believe it would result in the depletion of 
the beds and the ruin of our business and of the industry. Naturally, 
in two years, if the sup])ly of sponges gives out. the ]irice will be 
higher than it ever was, and there will be nothing left to supply 
new sponges, as has been suggested by Doctor Smith. 

Mr. Wilson. Are you familiar with the coast of Florida ? 

Mr. Bern.stein. Not especially. 

Mr. Wilson. I would like to ask some one as to whether there are 
250 to 300 miles of sponge grounds along that coast ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I think Mr. Cheyney, who lives at Tarpon Springs, 



PROTECTION OK THE SPO^!OE INPfSTRY. 45 

could posssiKIy irivc yini tlic Ix-sl infdiiiiiitioii nhoul tli;il. I do not 
know iduiut it. 

Mr. ("iiKYNKY. I will say. in reply to that, that the Unown sponge 
gi-oiind> in that region e.xtend ahout 1'20 miles along the coast from 
Tampa up to a point south of 'I'allaha-- ec. or St. Marks, as we (;all 
it — liiO miles north and south. 

Mr. \Vil..soN. Is that the territory lliat lia> lieen investigated and 
found to contain >i)oiiges. or is lliere otlicr territory wliich has not 
been investigated t 

Mr. CiiEYNEY. That is the oidy territory that lias been inves- 
tigated — that is, it is the only region on that coast in which tiie water 
gets clear so that the old method of hooking can be |)iirsiied. and up to 
the time of the introduction of the diver that was the only means 
of investigating the grounds. Sinct' the introduction of divers they 
have been working along the same lines, and at the jiresent time they 
have worked a distance of (iO miles north and south, or onedialf of the 
total distance. Many of the divers and masters of boats with whom 
I have recently talked claim that the grounds are very much de- 
pleted on that tract since they have been o]ierating. That is also 
evident by the sizes of the sponges now procured from those grounds. 
'I'hey run about one-half the size they did when they started some 
few months ago. That is because of their natural selection of the 
largest first and then those next in size and so on down, so that Avhile 
at first they would run 1 or 2 to the ]ionnd they are now running 6 
or M or 10 to the jKiund. That is certainly striking evidence that the 
grounds show marked depletion. I shouhl say the depletion had been 
as niiicli as 50 per cent since the divers have been at work, and their 
operatit)ns cover one-half of the only known sjionge district on that 
coast. 

Senator T.m.iaferro. Mr. Bernstein, did yon know anything about 
the intention of liringing this subject before Congress before the bill 
was introduced in the Senate? 

Mr. Berxsteix. Absolutely nothing at all about it until I received 
the letter with the l)ills inclosed from Doctor Smith, under date of 
March IT). 

Senator T.vliaeehko. Did you or your friends interest yourselves 
at all in this bill while it was ])ending in the Senate? 

Mr. Bernsteix. Absolutely not at all. 

Senator T.\i,i.\ferro. So that your more active interest in this mat- 
ter began when the bill came to the House? 

Mr. Berx.steix. We did not know anything that was happening. 
When we received. your first bill we looked it over. 

Senator Taei.xi'erro. From whom did you receive it? 

Mr. Behxsteix. From Doctor .Sniitii. I will say that we did then 
consult an attorney regarding the matter, and he told us that it would 
not pay to oppose the passage of this bill, because the danger would 
be that the divers would leave their boats outside of the 3-mile limit 
and bring the sponges ashore, and he believed that, under the word- 
ing of the bill, that might be possible, ^^'e did nothing further in 
the matter, and I did not know that anything further was being 
tlone. except that I did hear that the |)eoijle in Tarpon Springs had 
opposed this original bill which was i)efore the Senate. AMiile I was 
in Tarpon Springs two weeks ago there was a little clipping in the 
Tarpon Tribune, which I saw was lieaded : '' This will put our Greeks 



46 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

out of ' biz.' " It simply stated that diving had been prohibited, and 
that no aliens would be allowed to fish. Of course that was very 
vague, and I had no exact information as to what the bills were. I 
asked several people in Tarpon Springs about it, and they did not 
know exactly what bill had been passed, whether it was the original 
hill or the second l)ill, which we are at present considering. 

At that time I wrote to Doctor Smith and asked him to kindly 
send me the two bills which had been passed by the Senate. They 
were mailed to nie in a letter signed by Commissioner Bowers. 
Then we noticed the possibilities of this bill. I believe that at the 
same time our people in New York also noticed them, and we inter- 
ested ourselves for the protection, as I said before, of the industry. 
Our interest was first inspired by this letter from Doctor Smith, 
which was also sent to the Pharmaceutical Era, and which contains 
l^ractically the same information he has given the committee to-day. 

Senator Taliaferro. Did you or your friends or your attorney 
ever hiire any correspondence or conmiunication with either one of 
the Florida Senators on this subject? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir; absolutely none. So far as the Congress- 
men are concerned, when I was in Tarpon Springs I did not know 
that Mr. Sparkman was the Representative of that district, and I 
had absolutely no correspondence with anyone at all who has had 
anything to do with this bill. 

Senator Taliaferro. Please sta^c when was the first meeting you 
ever had with me. 

Mr. Bernstein. In this committee room on Monday afternoon. 

Mr. Wilson.' I would like to ask Mr. Cheyney one more question. 
If diving was permitted there, would they find new sponge ground 
and new sponge territory? 

Mr. Cheyney. I think it is possible they would. Of course we 
have nothing to guide us in that regard, but there is a long stretch 
on that coast that has never been explored, by the divers or otherwise, 
and I think the chances are about even. It is impossible to make a 
guess on the subject, but I certainly could not say they would not. 
All of the conditions necessary to a sponge ground are found there. 
There is a rock bottom, and sponges grow on rock bottom. Whether 
the necessary rock bottom exists in that unexplored part of the coast 
I do not know. If it does exist, the presumption would be that there 
are sponges on the bottom. 

Mr. LiNDHEiM. The distinction between the original bill and the 
present bill has not been very clearly brought before this committee. 
The original bill was to prohibit the taking of sponges within the 
3-mile limit, but it was thought that bill would not j^revent diving, 
because they could go outside of the 3-mile limit. 

Senator Taliaferro. I do not think I ever introduced a bill to 
prevent diving within the 3-mile limit. 

STATEMENT OF A. A. SERAPHIC. 

Mr. Seraphic. Mr. Chairman, the last time I spoke before this 
committee I referred to a combination of buyers and to the efforts of 
Mr. Bernstein and others of New York to limit the output of sponges 
in Florida, in order to enable them thereby to corner the market. I 
wish to make this point very clear, that I did not intend to throw 



PKOTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 47 

cM'ii ilic shallow of the existence of an idea in my mind that the hon-- 
orablo Senator Taliaferro, from Florida, had any iinderstiuidiii<r or 
knowledfjfe with Mr. Bernstein, because I know well how the hill 
ori<;inated. Mr. Taliaferro took it up at the instifjatiou of the 
hookers at Key West. After the hill had |)ass(>d throujih the Senate 
and had come to the House Mr. Bernstein then availed himself of the 
opportunity to come here and throw his etForts in favor of the pas- 
sajre of that bill. I wish that [)oint to be made clear. 

Mr. Si'KiiiT. I do not think any member of tiiis ('(JnimiHee has the 
slightest suspicion that there was anythini>- wi'onj; connected with the 
passage of that bill. 

Mr. Seraphic. My statement did not intend to convey any such 
idea. I know that Mr. Bei'ustein, the head of the firm, was down 
in Floi-ida, at Tarpon Springs, when the price of sponges went 
tumbling to $8 a bunch after he arrived, and that he personally told 
nie that if I could get the operators to agree upon a limitetl output 
he would save a half a milli(m dollars and run the price u]) again, 
because he did not feel justified in investing in the purchase of 
sponges $-iOO,000 or $300,000 with a prospective yield of a million and 
a half dollars of goods; but that if the (tut put was limited, he could 
do it. That was just the time that he heard of this ])ro])oscd bill 
here in Washington; and he stated that when he got back he would 
do his best to see that the bill passed. 

Mr. Berxsteix. Will you state which l)ill that was^ You are 
talking about the first bill. 

Mr. Seraphic. The first bill: yes, sir. In regard to the slati>nuMit 
that the treading of the diver on the bottom, by reason of the weight 
of his shoes, would have a tendency to destroy the animal life, I wish 
to state that a diver does not weigh, possibly, more than a half a 
pound or a pound when he is luider water, because the suit of the 
diver is inflated, and the air which inflates the suit of the diver en- 
ables him to be buoyant. He floats in the water. The diver does not 
walk, because if it was necessary for a diver to walk, the weights 
he has on him are such that he would be unable to cover a single 
block. 

Mr. Spight. Have you had practical experiences as a diver, or do 
you know anything about it ? 

Mr. Skkaphic. I donned a suit once on the other side; but I know 
all of these divers down there. I know men who have been diving for 
fifteen years. The fact I have stated is demonstrated by their stories, 
as told me, of their operations in the Mediterranean, where there are 
deep cliffs, 30 or 40 fathoms. The sponges grow all along those 
steep clilTs. and they gather them where they have no footing at all. 
The diver, through the accumidation of air in the helmet and the 
inflation of his suit, is enabled to keep his equilibrium and go along 
these cliffs to gather the sponges, although he has absolutely no foot- 
ing. The same thing occurs at the bottom of the seas. He does not 
walk. He simply uses the toes of his shoes to push him along. He 
keeps his suit inflated, in order to make speed, because otherwise he has 
no speed. He pushes first with one toe and then with the other, 
and then he is floating along, not walking, because the accumulation 
of air has the tendency to outbalance the weights. The i>ump above 
pumps air into the helmet and the helmet is attached to the suit, and 
the suit naturally becomes inflated. The only wav that he can sink 



48 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

is by opening the air valve of the hehnet and allowing the accumula- 
tion of air to escape, so that the weight which he has of TO pounds 
will be greater than the buoyancy given by the air, in order to make 
him sink. 

Mr. AViLSON. How many sponges will they secure during the time 
they are down there, in a good average day's work? 

Mr. Ser.vphic. It depends upon the distance they cover, and it 
depends upon the average of sponge beds they discover. 

Mr. WiLSDX. I say, on an average? 

Mr. Ser.\phic. On an average, in good weather, a sponge diving 
outfit l)oat will bring in from 500 to <)00 bunches a month. 

Mr. Wilson. ^\niat I am trying to get at is this: The diver goes 
down and is down there two or three hours ? 

Mr. Seraphic. Yes, sir. 

Mr. AViL.soN. On an average, about how many sponges would he 
bring up for that two or three houi-s" work ? 

Mr. Seraphic. I would say lie would get from l.') to 60 bunches a 
day. 

Mr. Wilson. Each bunch would weigh how much? 

Mr. Seraphic. They are 5^ feet in length. Each string is called 
a " bunch," and they claim there are about ten marketalile sponges to 
the string. 

Mr. Spioht. Does he string then down there as he gathers them? 

Mr. Seraphic. No, sir. They first put them in craals and let them 
stay in craals, and after they are cleaned thoroughly they are strung. 

Mr. Spioht. How does he get them up ? 

Mr. Seraphic. He has a net bag with an open mouth with a sort 
of a small hooj) at the mouth, which he carries with him when he goes 
down. When he fills that up he ties it to the signal line, gives the 
signal, and they pull it up and send him a new sack down. 

I have talked with a great many of the captains of snapper fishing 
vessels, and they tell me that on all the snapper banks where they fish 
in the Gulf — some of them right outside of Pensacola — they have, a 
great many times, brought sponges to the surface with their snapper 
hooks. Wiich is an evidence that sjjonges do e.xist in these deep 
waters, even to a depth of (iO fathoms. 

Mr. Smith. What kind of sponges were they ? 

Mr. Seraphic. I do not know. 

Mr. Smith. Si:)onges have been found at a depth of a thousand 
fathoms ; but they are not marketable. 

Mr. Seraphic. I did not see the sponges; but these people claim 
that the sjjonges they find on the snapper banks are equally as good 
as the sponges found in slioal water. 

Mr. Smith. There is nothing at all improbable in that. 

Mr. Seraphic. In regard to the recuperation of the sponge beds, 
I want to say that, as Doctor Smith has stated, the closed season is 
not sufficient to allow these beds to recuperate. I think that' if the 
sponge district was divided into two districts — No. 1 and No. 2 — and 
fishing was allowed in one district for three j^ears and then allowed 
in the other district tor three years it would be the best solution of 
the i^roblem for the protection of the sponges. 

I think the diving boats have really revived, in a measure, the 
sponge industry by finding new and virgin sponge beds. They are 
diving in '20, 30. and up to 40 fathoms of water. They fish up to 40 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDVSTKY. 49 

fathoms of water in tlu' Mt'ditcrnnu'itii. iiiiil tlu-re is no reason why 
they should not do it here. Tliere is a <ri-eat treasure lyin<r at the 
bottom of the sea wliieli can be plaeetl on tlie market, and which will 
make Florida the greatest sponge market in the world. If the pro- 
tection of the industry is a matter for consideration, why not have 
tlie tieid divided into districts, numbered 1 and 2, as it is in Cuba? 
Cuba iuis that melliod of protecting the sponge district — In" dividing 
it into two districts. A short closed season will not protect the beds. 
It is necessary to have three or four years closed season in order to 
grow a new sponge croj). 

Senator Tai.i.\i-kkro. If tlie policy should lie adopted of dividing 
that teri-itory into districts, as you suggest, and no restriction was 
)iut on the number of spongers to engage in tiie business, how many 
vessels do you estimate would be engaged in that business within the 
ne.\t twelve months, on the theory that ihcrc aic now TO vessels en- 
gaged in the business ( 

Mr. Skkai'IIU'. I do not think there will be a great many more 
vessels put into ojjeration. for reasons which I shall ]iresently give. 
There are now 70 outfits down there: but Mr. Cheyney will bear me 
out when I say that 30 of those diving boats are tied up to-day be- 
cause of lack of crews to operate them. Operators owning three 
boats are now operating one. It is necessary to have apjjroximately 
14 men to run a diving boat, and the crews there uoay are only suffi- 
cient to man 40 boats. 

The Chaiu.max. You mean the (Jreek divers? 

Mr. Skkai'iiic. Yes, sir. 

Senator Taliaferro. Then you do not think there would be 300 
vessels in business within the ne.xt three years? 

Mr. Serai'hic. If there was profit enough I supi)ose that a great 
many peojjle would invest in them ; but the question to be solved is 
the (piestion of crew. The inability to get crews to-day has tied up 
half the outfits down there. 

Mr. Cheyney. Mr. Seraphic has asked me to bear him out in the 
statement, but I can not do so, because I am not sufficiently informed. 
I do know that some boats are tied up. I would like to ask him, 
however, if that is not because of a dispute between the operators and 
the crews as to the method in which the crews should receive employ- 
ment. At the present time there is a strike on the part of the men, 
who demand wages from the operators. For that reason the boats 
are without crews, and the men are there waiting employment when 
they can come to terms with the o})erators: is not that true? 

Mr. ."^eraphic. A part of it is; but I know there are no men, and a 
committee has been sent to New Orleans, by the executive committee 
of the association, to try and secure three or four hundred seamen 
if possible. 

Senator Taliaferro. Greeks? 

Mr. Seraphic No: Italians or Greeks or anybody at all. 

Mr. Cheyney. But all aliens? 

Mr. Seraphic. I don't know about that. They were sent to secure 
them wherever they could get them. xVs to the question of the in- 
ability to cure sponges on the boats I wish to say that in the Med- 
iterranean the trips are from seven to eight months, and after leav- 
ing the sponge grounds there they follow along the African coast 

8 1—06 4 



50 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

and fish, and they cure their sponges on the boats and dry ilieni and 
then jjack them in boxes. 

Mr. Spight. How does tlie size of the boats compaiv with ihe size 
of the boats here? 

Mr. Seraphic. The boats are just the same a- tliey me liere. With 
reference to tlie inability to cure the s])on»'es, tliey sny that tliey are 
apt to turn yeUow. That is due to tlie fact thnt tlie lendency has 
been here not to clean the sponge thoroughly, in order to leave the 
weight in it, which the buA'ei's jiere desire; and they leave in the 
matter that should be thoroughly gotten out of tlie sponge. That is 
what produces this y(>llo\v color. If they are ls:e])t in a proper place 
and the sponges are thoroughly cleaned and dried they can be kept 
for two years, as well as the Mediterranean sj^onges can be. 

Mr. Bernstein. Do 3'ou not know tjiat in the winter months the 
Rock Island sponge has so much gurry in it that they chiim it is 
absolutely imi^ossible to get it all out under riny conditions? 

Mr. Seraphic. I know of one boat where the sponges were cleaned 
on (lie boat and the crop was brought in ;irid >old during tlie winter 
months. The crop consisted of nearly 500 bunches. Those had been 
cleaned on the boat. Now, regarding the meeting to which Mr. 
Cheyney referred, I wish to say that I went to his office with Mr. 
Meres for a social call, and the question of the difficulty of keeping 
crews and the (piestion of weights came up. We all discussed what 
would be the best measure for the purpose of keeping others from 
coming into the business and a proj^osed combination between opera- 
tors to that end. That was really at the l)()ttom of the entire 
meeting. 

Mr. SpKiHT. You wanted to i»lay a freeze-out game, did you? 

Mr. Seraphic. Yes, sir; when that ([uestion came up the idea was 
suggested of a closed season, and I stated that every member of the 
association would abide by a decision to close up for four months 
during the winter time, when it is unprofitable to operate owing to 
the storms. The smnmer months are rally the months when we can 
operate profitably: and of course during those months we wish to be 
allowed to do so. 

This lack of crews has resulted in the stealing of each other's crews. 
One operator, having no crew, goes to the divers of another operator 
and says, " You come with me ; if it is a question of wages, and you are 
getting $r)0. I will give you $00 or $70." In view of that we all de- 
cided to sign a bond that we will forfeit our boats and diving pumps 
to the association if we take any members of a crew on wages. The 
intention was to put them all on a share basis, so that this stealing of 
men could not occur. 

Regarding the question of contracts, a letter was read by Mr. 
Sparknian tiie other day, received from Mr. Decker, in which it was 
stated that if I had not these contracts in hand I would be in favor of 
the bill. Every boat down there has contracts. The winter months 
are the ones that are not })rofitablc, and for that period we can accede 
to a closed season ; but during the summer months, which is the only 
titne it is j)rofital)le to operate, we desire to have the privilege of 
operating. 

jNIr. .Spight. Will you look at this letter and see if that is the sig- 
nature of the ]\fr. Decker you referred to? 
Mr. Seraphic. Yes, sir. 



PROTECTION OK THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 51 

Mr. Spigiit. I hiivi- here an article taken from the Tarpon S])rin<^s 
News, whieh is copied from a JacksonviUe |)ai)er. What is the name 
of the Jacksonville jwper '. 

Mr. 8ER.\riiic. The Jacksonville Tinies-l'nion. 

Mr. Bkrnstkin. Mav I ask the date of that i)aper? 

Mr. Sphjut. It is da'tetl ^larch 17. 1!)()C>. 

Mr. .'^EitAiMiK'. In reirard to s]jon<>:e beds and the present depletion 
of them, I have i)een informe(l i)y the <livers of some boats, three 
we<>ks a<ro. that thev had discovered virgin sponge beds in 1<) fathoms 
of water. They had been fishing at 8i, 9, and np to V2 fathoms; 
then thev tried Hi fathoms and fonnd these new sponge beds. They 
can tish np to as high as 40 fathoms. They fish in 40 fathoms of 
water in the ^h'ditel■^anean. and lliev can do it here. If any m(>asnre 
is to be taken for the protection of the sponge beds, the only one that 
will bring about the results tlesired is to divide the field into districts, 
making one district from Anclote to Pensacola and the other from 
Andote to Key West; then permit fishing in one for three years or 
four years and let the fishing be done in water u]) to 40 fathoms, to 
their capacity; and then sus|)cnd fishing in that district and fish in 
the other. That will allow the sponge beds to recuperate. 

Mr. LixnuEiM. How can that be done if these beds lie outside 
of the jurisdiction of the United States? 

Mr. Ser.vphic. By the same method this legislation now proposes. 

Mr. LiNHiiEiM. AAHien these sponges are taken, how can the United 
States distinguish whether they were taken from one section or 
another? 

Mr. Seraphic. How is it j^roposed to be done now '. 

Mr. LiXDiiEnr. It ])rohibits taking sponges within a given time. 

Mr. Seraphic. AVhy can not one district be ]ioliced !)y two revenue 
cutter.s ? 

Mr. LiNDHEiM. Because the (ioverument ha> no jurisdiction out- 
side of the 3-inile limit. 

Mr. Seraphic. The sponge beds are uatui-ally phu'ed l)eyond the 
jurisdiction of the United States. The sponge beds are from 1.") to 
60 and 65 miles out. 

Mr. Patteksox. Mr. Chairman. I would suggest that if Mr. 
.Serajihic has anything further to say he can reduce it to writing and 
submit it. 

^Ir. Spakkjiax. I want to ask Mr. Hope one or two questions. 
Have you any suggestion as to the kind of a bill that would be satis- 
factory to you I 

Mr. IIoi'E. I am satisfied with the bill you lave if you will knock 
out the closed season. That is all I ask. 

The C'liAir.MAN. You mean there is no nece^sitv for legislation at 
vA\'. 

Mr. Hope. I do not think there is; but I have no objection to any- 
thing in the bill except the closed season. I have no objection to 
the alien ])art of it. and I am satisfied to let them lish in 50 feet of 
water and let the other spongers come inside of that; but the onh' 
thing I object to is the closed season. 

Mr. Spi(;ht. Mr. Chairman. I desire to submit and have printed as 
a part of the record a letter from L. D. Vinson, of Tarpon Springs, 
Fla.; a letter from the Tar])on Springs News, taken from the Jack- 
sonville Times-Union, and signed by W. W. K. Decker, and a petition 



52 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

and j)r()test published in the Tarpon Sprinirs New?s under date of 
March 24, l!)0(i. 

The jiapers referred to are as follows: 

Tarpon Si'RixfiS, Fla.. A/iril i:i. l!i(i(i. 
Hon. John SiiAur Williams. 

Wiisliimitdii. it. ('. 

Dear Sir: Siiiiposi' you locHivecl telegram sent this morning in refereiue to 
Senator Taliaferro's spon^ie bill which X'ecently passed the Senate. That you 
may thoroughly understand situation here I inclose two articles from our town 
jiaper. The one " Diving for sponge," by \V. W. K. Decker, is recognized and 
indorsed by all as a true statement of affairs. He is largest buyer here ; has 
been in business several years. However, he is in a doubtful position now. as 
he is trying to work for both iuterest of town and northern buyers for whom he 
is agent. Read article " Petition," and you will see what our people wanted 
and expected. Each diving boat was assessed iflO to employ lawyer to fight 
l>ill. l)ut we find now he was only emjiloyed to ])revent revenue cutters from 
coming. Undermining work has been done: diving operators and people of 
Tarpon have been deceived. 

The operators' requests are fair and reasonable. They only ask to be allowed 
to operate where, not when, hooker can not. that being at depth of not less than 
50 feet, which is 14 or 15 miles out. not in Florida waters, and lieyond where 
hookers can work. Our sheriff, in res])onse to the governor's demand, came a 
few months ago, and made a thorough investigation : found no diving vessel at 
work nearer than 14 miles from shore. Why should they work in shallow 
water when Ijest grade and higher price sponges are in the deep water, and 
none of the deep-water gi'ounds has ever been worked before. Note in " Peti- 
tion " the restrii-tion is on size of sponge, which is .iust : but in Taliaferro's bill, 
]>assed by Senate, is to prohibit sponge being delivered in United States that is 
taken at or beyond depth of ."iii feet and from Jlay 1 to October 1. 

If to protect the beds and sponge industry, then why not on all sponges at 
any depth from May 1 to October 1? If sponge beds 14 miles out that have 
never been worked reijuire protection from Slay 1 to October 1, does it not seem 
reasonable that the beds the hookers have worked for years would need same 
protection and during same months? Don't you see it isn't siiniigc beds, but the 
muiii'yc<l iKiwcr. that the liill is designed to protect'.' Else restrirtion would be in 
size and same for hookers as for divers. The northern buyers have on hand 
quite a lot of sponge bought at from .$0.50 to $10.75 per bunch — they are now 
only paying from $2.10 to $3.2.T per bunch — and they can handle what the 
hookers would get from May to October, as those are the best sponging months. 
They don't want more to go on market than they can control, and they do prac- 
tically control this market. They care nothing for our southern industr.v 
except as they are profited thereby. 

Read article 3 as to who signed the petition. Note resident sponge buyers 
signed and worked for defeat until northern buyers began their wire pulling. 
Note character of hookers, that oiie-hiilf are negroes and ()0 jier cent aliens, 
while a large per cent of the owners of diving boats are American citizens. 
Now, if you can realize how a southern industry is being tranqiled on by bos.s- 
isni, I am sure you would rally Mississippi's forces and help Florid.-i down 
oppressors. 

Yours, truly, .1. B. Cowsert. 



DIVING FOR sponges. 

[From Jacks ville Times-Union.] 

Having noted several prejudicial allusions by .vour Ke.v West correspondent 
regarding the Greek sponge divers who are plying their avocation in the waters 
of the Gulf, with Tarpon Springs as the base of their operations, I think it an 
opportune time to tender the iwiblic a partial statement, correct in details, 
of the past and present history of the sponge business by one familiar with 
the conditions as they liave existed for a period of fifteen years. 

For many years sending out a fleet of vessels to the sponging grounds was 
conducted solely by Key West parties, and the northern dealers in this com- 
munity either sent or kept their representatives there to buy the product as it 



PROTECTIOX OF THE SPONGE INDl'STRV. 53 

>v;is lii-dUKliI 111 iii.ii-ki't hy tlic tislumTriicii ; liul mIkhiI llir \i-.\v I.v.iii .-i ciiiiiipmiiv 
WHS (ii-!:!iiiii'.t>(l .Ml 'r;u-|iiiii Spring's to si'iid cull a tlcol of vcssi'ls .■mil mIso |mi-cli;isr 
spoii^'cs. and tliniii;.'li the cipiaiictitioii lliiis I'li^'ciKlcrcil (lir dcalci-s were forceil 
to place airciits licri'. anil liraihially Uiis lias lii'i-oini' llic slruiiKcst market. For 
sever.-il years past I'villy .'Ul per i-ent of the catch of KocU Island sheep's wool 
and Anclcitc s;rass and yellow sponjies. or. to lie more explicit, sponges found 
north of Kiinioiit Key. li.ive been sold here, while the Key ;;oods taken from the 
w.iters liclwceii the islands near the southern end of the .State have continued 
to lind their m.irUct al Ki\v West, owin.i; to its proximity to those grounds. 

The method in vo;.Mie fur catching; sponu'cs w:is hy use of a iiole with a tliree- 
proiiKed hook att.-n-hed to one end. and as fairly calm weather and cle;ir water 
were reqiiisile to the succes.s of this mode, the principal part of the lishermen's 
work was done in water ranging from 1."i to 'M feet in depth, although under 
favorahle circumstances they sometimes tished in .ihout ."id feet of water. 

Owing to the persistent working of the sponge lieds in the localities where 
their method could he em|iloyed tiy a const.-inlly increasing iimnlier of men. these 
grounds hec.-imc less prolilic. until through sc-arcity of the goods taken and the 
keen competition among the dealers prices advanced to more than douhle. The 
johher. tindiiig the retailers would not pay twice the prices formerly charged, 
adulterating or "lo.-iding" was resorted to for the inirpose of decreasing the 
price per pound. This only ostensibly reduced the price, and the consmner 
.■ictually rec'cived but lialf as much sponge for his money as when the goods 
were sold pure. The tishermen engaged in the business under the old method, 
of which there have been aliout l,Ot)(). have been nearly eiiually divided as re- 
gards color, and at least tiO per cent have been aliens, hailing from the B.ihama 
Islaud.s. 

While a considerable number are intelligent and honorable, a certain propor- 
tion are ignorant and tlie morals of many are not above criticism. Obtaining 
advatu'es, a cvistom inaugurated by some of the owners of the vessels to secure 
the best "hookers" (uot "tongers"). wliich finally became universal, it is a 
common occurrence for them to jumji the vessel without repaying the owner 
his money. One class are heavy drinkers when they can procure liquor, whether 
with their own money or tiy exchange of the ves.sel's supiilies. and during their 
drunken orgies many serious affrays have occurred. The end of a successful 
trill, wht'u they could " drew," has always been a time of revelry and debauchery 
among this class, and the result of their labor would be quickly dissipated. 
And of these same peojile one cau not truthfully say that their word is their 
bond. 

As a buyer I have lieen closely associated with the tishermeu for years and 
have endeavored to bear their good will, through consistently fair treatment, 
and while the above statements will no doubt arouse the animosity of those 
they are intended to cover, they are generally known facts and do not reHect 
upon those who are exempt from such charges. The vessels, usually owned by 
merchants, have l)een outfitted with supiilies for a trip of eight or ten weeks' 
duration, the owner bearing the entire expense of the tri|). t'nder the system 
of sharing the men have received one-half of the gross proceeds of the sale 
of their product, .•md as an additional inducement to labor the hookers have 
been given one-quarter of a share from the owners' part, the cook one-quarter 
of a share to practice economy in vise of provisions, and the cairtain an extra 
jiercentage to care for the vessel and direct the work of the crew. The accumu- 
lation of bad accounts due to the system of advances, without which no fisher- 
man would ship for a trip, amounting to thousands of dollars, and the losses 
incurred when the catches were small, have more tlian once brought the vessel 
owners to face impending ruin. 

The new method of diving was started less than a year ago liy a (ireek who 
had been previously employed in a jiacking house here, and his efforts proving 
successful beyond expec-tatlons, othi'rs. both .\mericaiis and (Jreeks. hastened to 
prcH-ure apparatus and begin operations. Now. there are probably (iOil (Jreeks 
here, many of them highly educated men and quite a number naturalized citi- 
zens of the I'uited States. Thus far the town has nut had any iust c.uise to 
regret their advent, as. while there have been a few violations of proprieties, 
owing to ignorance of Aniericau customs, they have not created any disturbances, 
and all seem disposed to make quiet and orderly citizens. The merchants and 
boat builders here and in Tampa and .Tacksonville have extensively prolited from 
their already large business. 

The claim of the hookers that the divers are infringing on their rights can not 
he establislied. as the diver's work is all done on the high seas, beyond the 
jurisdiction of State or Federal (Jovernnient. where the Cutian fishing smacks 



54 PROTEcftoN OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

catch gi-ouper and red snapper for the Habaua markets. The assertion, too, 
that the metal soles of the diver's shoes injure the bottom to the detriment of 
the sjiouge can not he jiroven. This method has been followed for a great many 
years in the .Alediterranean Sea. and I am told that only overworking the 
grounds has had any effect upon the growth or supjily. The hookers have 
themselves done much harm to the grounds liy taking the very small sponge 
sini-e the larger sizes have become less plentiful. There is a State law pro- 
hibiting taking or selling a sponge under a cert.-iin limit of inches in diameter, 
but it has been violated repeatedly by the fishermen, and no punishment has been 
imposed in any case. 

The iiroduct of the divers, being taken from deeper waters, is mueli superior 
to the usual take of the hookers in both quality and size, .and the increased out- 
put through their operations will soon bring prices down to. a point where the 
consumer will not be obliged to pay half of his money for the S's (so called by 
the packers), sand. salt, and siru)). It is authentically stated that the bookers 
are much incensed at the divers and that a mob of them, after handling two 
or three Greeks very roughly in Key West some time since, iilaced a rope 
around the neck of one with the intention of hanging him, but were prevailed 
upon to allow liim to leave town. 

It is al.so reported that an armed tleet of hookers are coming out to the 
grounds with the intention of killing (ireeks and destroying the outfits of those 
engaged in the Imsiness. This latter rumor I believe to be exaggeratetl, how- 
ever, and to consist merely of idle threats by irresponsible parties, as it must 
be realized that such acts of violence would meet with speedy and e.xtreme 
retrilnition under the maritime laws of the country. Their threats extend 
to some of their former comrades who have found employment in the new busi- 
ness, and who are cf)nsidered renegades. 

The inhabitants of the State most contiguous to the sponge beds are appar- 
ently content with the new conditions and would deprecate any Interference. 

The enaction of any prohibitory laws, as have been suggested, would only 
result in the transference of the divers' vessels under the protection of the 
Cuban Government, when the operations would be pursued upon the same 
grounds and the goods sent into the United States with an additional cost ^f 
duties. 

Matters are ijuite unsettled at present, and it is ditlicult to forecast the 
ultimate outcome : but it would appear that the increased production and conse- 
quent decline of prices through the continuance of the new method can only 
result in the greatest good to the greatest number. 

Yours, very truly, AV, W. K. Decker. 

Tarpo.n Sprinos. Miiirh s. ]!)()(]. 



I'ETITION. 

To Ihc htiiKirdhIr clidiniKiii and iiiciiihcrt (if the Ciinniiitlrr on Foni(/ii Rcln- 

lioiix: 

Under consideration the Senate bill Xo. 4Si"l. introduced by Senator Talia- 
ferro. 

We, the undersigned American citizens, residents of the counties of Hillsboro 
and Pasco, in the State of Florida, having read the protest made b.y the persons 
engaged in taking sponge off the coast of Florida by diving, and being thor- 
oughly familiar with the situation, do respectfully submit to your committee 
that the said protest is well founded and should be given due consideration. 

We do further state that the passage of Senate bill Xo. 4800 would practi- 
cally destroy the sponging industry in so far as the State of Florida is con- 
cerned. 

We do further state in our opinion the passage of the bill prohibiting diving 
for sponges in water less than 48 feet in deiitb. and ]irohibit tlie taking of 
sponges less than •"> inches in diameter, would thoroughly jirotect the siionge 
industry, and would be to the best interest of the public in general. 

Uespectfully submitted, etc. 

Wi'. tlie undersigned citizens of the United States residing at Tarpon Springs 
luiil vicinity, in the State of Florida, and engaged in the business of obtaining 
sponges by diving, desire to enter a protest before your conunittee against the 
passage of Senate bill Xo. 480C. And, in support of can- opiiosition, would 
respectfully state the following facts: 



PROTECTION OK THE SPONGE INDl'STHV. 55 

rirst. T,ir|i(iii Spriiius is tlii' l;u-;;('st spoiij;i> inarkol in tlic T'liited States, mid 
jiractically docs about !M' pei- ct'iit of Ilie spoiifte busiiioss of the rnited States. 

Second. We. tlie uiideisiiined. have inve.sted in vessels and paraphernalia for 
;ratherinf: sponges approximately .$i;iM».(Hi(). 

Third. There are employed in this business, who have their headcpiarters at 
Tarpon Sprin;^^. Fla.. about !HKi persons. The passaj;e of Sen.ite liill No. 4Sn(; 
woidd praclically destroy the investment above mentioned and would throw out 
of employment almost all of the men enfiaj^tcnl in the above-mentioned busincsts 
and cause their removal from this rcirion. 

Fourth. In the opinion of the uudersisned there is no reason for the passage 
of Senate bill Xo. 4S(it!. as it would do no f;ood either to the Govenuuent, the 
people engaged in spongins. or tlie <'onsumers of sponges. 

Fifth. In tlie opinion of the undersigiu>d the passage of Senate bill No. 4800 
wouUl result either in the loss to the markets of the world of all of the sponges 
in water deeper than 4,S feet, for the reason that the old method of hooking 
sponges can not be snc<-essfull.v carried on in deeper water than 48 feet; or in 
driving the s|ionge business ont of the I'nited States. .\s. if the bill should 
be passed and the coiirts should sustain the same as a proper police regulation, 
the grounds upon which the diving is done being upon the high seas and be- 
yond the jurisdiction of the I'niKHl States, the result would be that the sponges 
would still be t.iken from these waters by diving, and the only result would be 
that the vessels therein engaged would laud their cargoes either upon the island 
of Cuba, the ISahama Islands, or some other foreign country. The mere mat- 
ter of distani-e from the sponging banks to the foreign port would make very 
little difference in the busim^s. it being a fact that the fishing smacks of both 
Cuba and the Bahamas catch most of their Hsh on the Florida coast and 
transport them to their home ports. 

Sixth. In order that your conunittee m.iy fully understand the condition.s 
prevailing, we beg to state that of our own actual knowledge, taking sponges 
liy the old method of hooking is impracticable in waters over a depth of 8 
fathoms: that by reason of the contiiuial taking of sponges for ninn.v years 
past in waters less than 4.S feet and where hooking is iiractic.ible. and by reason 
of the fact that man.v small .sponges have been taken, the sponging on the 
l>anks within a depth of 4S feet and within a distance of 1."i miles fnan the 
shore, has practically been exhausted. The conse(pience of this has been that 
the prices of sponges have been going higher and higher, and the consumer 
has been required to pay more than was reasonable for his sponge.s. 

Tlie diving in water from a depth of 48 feet and over has been carried on 
long enough olt' the coast of Ilillsboro County to demonstrate the fact that 
there are vast (piantities of marketable s|K)nges in the waters of this and 
greater depths, anil the only way to gather these sjHjnges is by tUe use of diving 
.iliparanis. 

In confirmation of the above statements we beg to call the committee's atten- 
tion to the rei>ort made b.v the Comnnssioner of Fisheries to the Secretary of 
Comnu'ice and Labor June MO. l!Ml.">. jiage 29. 

Seventh. In short, the old method of gathering spimges by the use of hooks 
alhxed to poles operated from the surface has ceased to result in profit either to 
the operator fishermen or dealers engaged therein. It was for this re.-ison that 
the diving method was introdu<-ed. that sponges might be taken from the virgin 
grounds lying in greater depth than 4.S feet and beyond the limit of the use of 
jjoles and hooks. That gathering sponges by diving in the deeper waters will 
permit the replenishing of the shallow-wafer grounds in a period of two or 
thriM' years, but the prohibition of the diving niefhod now will inevifabl.v de- 
stroy the entire industry to our i>eople. 

Fighth. In conclusion, recognizing that the (;ov(>rnment is .as nuich interested 
in the iirotecfion of the sponges as we are we would suggest from [)racfical ex- 
Iierience th.-it the only legislation needed or which would accomplisli the end in 
view would be a law prohibiting the use of the diving method in waters less than 
18 feet in depth, and a further enactment making it uiilawftd for any person. 
persons, or corporation to take, offer for sale, or Intve in iiossession any sponge 
loss than 5 inches in diameter, measured when wet. .-it its greatest diameter. 
The passage of such a l.iw would allow the gathering of sponges sutHcieiif to 
supl>ly the market and would at the same time, by forcing the si)onges to be 
taken from deeper waters, allow the shallow grounds to recuperate. All of 
which is respectfully submitted. 

The conunittee thereupon adjourned. 



56 PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

Washington. D. C. April 27. IfKlG. 
Hon. Charles H. Grosvenor. 

Chiiiniioii MriThiiiil Miii-iiic niiil Fisheries Committee. 

House of Representatives. Citij. 
Dear Sir: Since tlip hciirint; so kimlly iiceorded me b.v the subeomniiltee 
appointed by .vou for the jmrpose of investigating and hearing parties for and 
against the Senate bills 4S(i.". .aid 480G. relative to the sponge btisiness in Florida 
waters. I have given further thought to the matter, and in view of the fact that 
a great many vessels have, during the last few months, been fitted out at great 
expense with diving apparatus with a view to engaging in the sponge business 
in waters off the Gulf coast of Florida, many of which are now actually engaged 
in this business, and in view of the further fact that the pass.iL:c <>( said bill 
(S. 4806) in its present shape would entail heavy loss upon tlh^^.' pmtics— a 
thing not desired by those protesting against the passage of s^iiil nicnsurc — I 
am perfectly willing, and have so stated to Senators Taliaferro and Mallory. 
as also to Mr. Sparkman. memlier of Congress from the first district of Florida, 
that said bill be reported and passed with an amendment providing that the 
same shall not take effect until the 1st of March. 1907. 

I also think that Senate bill 4S0.5 should likewise be amended by striking out 
in line 4, page 1. " either as principal, agent, or employee." 

I understand the Senators are perfectly willing that this shall be done. 
Very respectfully. 

Saml. E. Hope. 



Washington. D. C. .\i>ril .'(!. 1006. 
Hon. Chas. H. Grosvenok. 

Chairman Committee on tiie Merehant Marine and Fisheries. 

House of Representatires. Washinriton. D. C. 

Snt : In accordance with the permission granted me by your connnittee. I have 
the honor to submit the following comments on the two measures now before 
it for tlie regulation of the sponge industry, the said measures being bills S. 
4805 and 4806 : 

As respects the first-mentioned bill. I submit that it contains, in the form of a 
proviso at the conclusion of section ">, a stipulation that renders it nugatory. 
It is not necessary to go into any discussion of the constitutional question as 
to the power of Congress to forbid aliens to engage in the business of taking 
sponges within the water limits over which the jurisdiction of the I'nited States 
extends, although it is questionable whether it is a legitimate exercise of the 
authority "' to regulate commerce with foreign nations and among the several 
States "to forliid alisolntely those who are not citizens from engaging in a law- 
ful pursuit within the territory of this country. But I will request your atten- 
tion to the v:irious treaties with foreign countries, under which the United States 
has conceded to the citizens of those countries the protection in the enjoyment 
of all the rights secured to citizens of the United States resident in said coun- 
tries, as well as to " the most-favored-uation " clause, which, with the exception 
of China, place all foreign countries with whom we have treaty agreements on 
the same basis in this respect. As an illustration, let us take article .". of our 
treaty with Brazil, which reads as follows : 

" The two liigh contracting jiarties. being desirous of placing the cDnunerce 
and navigation of their resjiective countries on the liberal basis of perfect 
equality and reciprocity, nuitually agree that the citizens and subjects of each 
may frequent all the coasts and countries of the other and reside and trade 
there in all kinds of produie, manufactures, and merchandise: and they shall 
enjoy all the rights, privileges, and (>xemptions, in navigation and counnerce, 
which native citizens or subjects do. or shall, enjoy." 

The last preceding i)hrase plaiidy shows that it would be a violation of 
treaty obligation to enact a law denying to aliens the same rights, etc.. as to 
sponge fishing as native citizens ilo now or may hereafter enjoy. The conclu- 
sion, therefore, seems irresistililc tluit, since the bill ( S, 4S().''>) itself preserves 
the treaty rights of aliens, denial of smli rights wnuld render the measure, if 
enacted, null and void. 

Turning now to the bill S. 4806, I have the honor to suggest, as in the case 
of S. 4805, that it is a doulitfnl exercise of the constitutional power to regulate 
conunerce. Certainly the United States can not lawfully undertake to forbid 
diving for sponges in waters lieyond the limits (if its jurisdi'-tion. Even if it be 



PROTECTION OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 57 

a legitimate cuntrDl of coiiiiiierce " from foivisii countries and between the 
several States " to forhid the landing, delivery, eure. or sale in the United States 
of sponges taken by divers anywhere in the waters of the (iidf of Mexico, the 
cost of adtHiuate polit'e supervision to prevent violations of the law would seem 
to require, as a justltioation of the outlay, the proof of some very decided 
benefit to the Tnited States from such a measure. 

It is specifically to the latter point that I puriKxse to address the following 
remarlvs. I state as fa<-ts. of wbidi I have personal experience, and which 
have not been gain.said or disputed, that — 

1. All .sponge fishing l)i\\(>n(l a ilepth of 50 feet must be done Ijy divers. 

2. The danger of the productiveness of the sponge beds of Florida, resulting 
from the rapacity of the fishers, is obviated by an effective law of that State, 
which iienalizes the sale therein of sponges of less than a specified size. 

:i. T'nder the operation of said law the said beds have not diminished in 
fertility and iiroliably will not. 

4. If sponge fisliing by divers lie forbidden, the available sponge field in the 
waters to which the bill relates will be linntetl to those under 50 feet or less of 
water, leaving many sipiare miles of sjionge beds as useless as though they 
were barren, limiting the market supply of a useful eonunodity and corre.spond- 
ingly raising its price. 

As regards the effect upon sponge beds of diving. I desire to state that it is 
no more injurious than the surf:u-e fishing. The divers, though heavily weighted 
to counteract the Imoyancy of the water, which would otherwise force them to 
the surface, are yet sinijily balanced so that they barely touch the bottom with 
one foot for purjMises of propul*:ion from point to point on a flat surface and 
readily rise up the side of steep inclines or over obstructions. They do not, 
therefore, injure the small sponges even if they touch them. Besides, those 
engaged in diving for sponges are equipped at a heavy expense, and they have 
thus a stronger inducement than the siu'face fishers to avoid injuring those 
beds to which they nuist look for a continuanc-e of their returns niton the 
investment. Even, however, if there were .iny found.ition for the fear that 
diving might produce a serious deterioration in the permanent supjily. to what 
purpose. I ask. would it be to preserve sponge fields which can never be ex- 
ploited by any other means? I assert with confidence that there is no ground 
for apiirehension on this score: that the foreign beds, which have for years 
been utilized solely by divers, have not deteriorated as a consequence of this 
mode of s|ionge tishiiig. and that the only deterioration which can occur results 
from the taking of sponges in disregard of their size. 

The logical and the only remedy is that in-ovided in the Florida statutes, to 
which I have already referred, to wit, to establish a standard of size or weight 
and impose rigorous [jenalties on the sale of sponges below the standard. 
Experience will then soon demonstrate the standard which should be adopted 
to maintain the productiveness of the sjionge waters. 

I have thus far proceeiled upon the assumption that the justification for the 
provision in the bill S. 48IM) forbidding divers to fish for sponges in the watexs 
mentioned is that theii; mode of sponge fishing is injurious, if not destructive, 
of the small sjionges. and thus of the productiveness of the sponge waters. 
But the bill permits such fishing for seven months out of the twelve. That 
affords the opportiniit.v to do any possible damage which it could be claimed 
diving would do. If the friends of the bill are really trying to prevent what 
they believe to be a danger to the sponge fields of the Straits of Florida and 
the Gulf of Mexico, they should insist ui)on and Congress, if of like opinion, 
should provide for a permanent closed season for sponge fishing by divers. 
Does not the bill in its present form concede the point in substance, as I have 
endeavored to show, that no more injury results from sponge fishing by diver's 
than from surface fishing? 

The actual effect of the measure as it stands will be to limit the output of 
s|X)uges, furnish no protection from the imagined damage by divers, maintain 
high prices to the consumer, and afford the opportunity to pre-serve a monojioly — 
without seeming to have that effect — by allowing di\ers to fish during the seven 
comparativel.v miijrofitable winter months and closing the beds to tliem for the 
five summer months, when the fishing is most itroductive. This last statement 
is emphasized by the fact that no benefit would result to sponge growth b.v a 
five months' closed .season, as the si)ouges grow but little in that space of time. 

In conclusion. Mr. Chairman, I beg to express my thanks for this opportunity 
to place upon record my |)rotest against a measm-e which from my personal 
experience and observation I know can only result in restricting the benefit of 



58 PEOTECftON OF THE SPONGE INDUSTRY. 

the sponge field, whether as sponge fisher, dealer, or oonsunier. to a very few. 
I believe it is in accord with the spirit of American institutions to extend the 
benefit of our natural resources to all and in the largest measure consistent with 
the prudent husbanding of those resources, and I can not doubt If careful con- 
sider.ition is given to the actual facts in relation to the sponge-fishing industry 
the connnittee will see that the measure (S. 4806) is not simply without merit, 
but is actually vicious to the public interests. 

Respectfully, A. A. Seraphic, 

President Sponge Diving Operators' Association. 



SECTION 2772, FLORIDA STATUTES. 

Whoever dredges or uses a dredge for the collecting or gathering of sponge 
in or upon the waters of the Gulf of Mexico within three marine leagues of the 
shoals, or upon any of the grounds known as sponging ground along the coast 
line of Florida from I'ensacola to Cape Florida, or whoever gathers sponge less 
than four inches in di.-inieter shall be punished for each offence by fine not ex- 
ceeding five hundred dollars and by confiscation of the boat, tackle, and ma- 
chinery, and in default of payment of said fine the offender shall be imprisoned 
not exceeding one year. 



LB Oo 



